10 fucking years? We’ll have flying cars before we have reasonably sized ones.

Prevention in practice.

No kidding. I was on a bike ride yesterday through some areas where entire subdivisions, in fairly medium/high class neighbourhoods, had no sidewalks. Retired folks were taking their nightly stroll on the side of the road. I guess kids don’t get to play outside there, either.

all cars take up the same amount of space at rest: one parking space each.

I wish all cars only took up one space. It’s extremely common to see large ass trucks unable to fit in driveways, so their ass end hangs out into bike lanes.

And it’s also common to see large ass trucks taking up 2 (or more) parking spaces in parking lots.

And in parking spots in front of stores (i.e. in a plaza), the front end hangs into the walking space of pedestrians.

Like trying to fit a large boat in a backyard swimming pool! They are too big for regular use.

“They’re just taking innocent people who are trying to build their own American Dream,” said Daniel Larios with the UFW Foundation. “This is not law enforcement. It’s a campaign of fear against people whose only ‘crime’ is living and working in the U.S.”

It’s an excuse to avoid fixing the real underlying problem – car dependency itself – by scapegoating one particular class of cars and absolving another.

I agree, but until we fix car dependency, I’d rather have people who need to use a car in a tiny one vs a goddamn tank!

This takes “one less car” to a whole new level!

You’re really close to what I’m saying. Cars don’t do this. That was what I said. Many people, yourself included said cars do this. They don’t.

Well, I gave you a long list of things that car drivers are doing, and you keep pointing to the one thing that they don’t do as often.

Fine. Yes, not all drivers are driving on the wrong side of the road. Just enough to cause over 400 deaths a year on dividend highways (these are roadways with separation between direction traffic!!!) (REPORT FROM AAA)

The U.S. Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reported over 1200 fatalities caused by wrong way drivers in 2022 alone! (SOURCE)

With those facts out of the way, in a protest, do you expect people to only move using the right-hand side?

They don’t have the same rules. There are tons of rules that apply only to vehicles and plenty of laws that apply only to bikes or people. I don’t know here you’re getting this concept from unless this is more sarcasm.

Well, I live in Ontario, Canada. And “under Ontario’s Highway Traffic Act, a bicycle is considered a vehicle, just like a car or truck.” (SOURCE).

Not sarcasm. Cyclists are expected to wait at red lights, even if the lights remain red because they require an actual large vehicle to trigger their sensors. This is discrimination.

There are also unfair speed limits put on e-scooter and e-bike riders. Bans on using e-scooters on roads "60km/h or more). And plenty of crossings where pedestrians and cyclists must yield to vehicles, even when it should be the other way around.

They don’t… Cars don’t use cross walks to cross the road. Where are you getting this concept from? Do you use a turning single when walking? How often do you get your bike inspected for road worthiness to make sure a wheel doesn’t come off and cause an accident? Cars can’t drive on the sidewalk, I see bikes doing this… This is so baseless and wild. You’re just literally making things up.

Makes no sense. You are trying to apply the same rules that trucks have to a pedestrian.

I’m saying that pedestrians are forced to follow “traffic rules” designed because of cars, not because pedestrians need them.

Show me a functioning city where cars don’t have rules. Because there are hundreds of examples of places where thousands of pedestrians and cyclists can move about without any of the same rules.

I’d like to see these studies. A car can break the law by swerving into an empty oncoming lane to avoid hitting a person that jumping into the road. That is a VERY valid excuse to break the rules.

A few studies off the top of my head:

• Marshall, Wesley E., et al. “Scofflaw Bicycling: Illegal but Rational.” Journal of Transport and Land Use, vol. 10, no. 1, 2017, pp. 805–36. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/26211757. Accessed 9 June 2025.

“Ulawful drivers and pedestrians tend to rationalize their behaviors as time saving; bicyclists similarly rationalize their illegal behaviors but were more inclined to cite increasing their own personal safety and/or saving energy.”

• (Sorry, this one is being reported by forbes, so might be paywalled) https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/

“A new study from the Danish Road Directorate shows that less than 5% of cyclists break traffic laws while riding yet 66% of motorists do so when driving.”

• Cyclists Are More Law-Abiding Than Drivers (ARTICLE)

“In the end, the results indicated that cyclists were compliant with the law 88 percent of the time during the day and 87 percent of the time after dark. The same study determined that drivers who interacted with the study subjects complied with the law 85 percent of the time. In other words, drivers were slightly naughtier than the cyclists—even without measuring speeding or distracted driving.”

About compliance, there are several more that show when cyclists have better infrastructure, they don’t break the rules as often, because their safety needs are being met. I don’t have a link, as it was something I remember from a while ago.

So bikes should be allowed on the freeways and criss-cross up and down the highway? People should be able to just walk down the middle of the highway? Do you live in reality man?

Of course not. Keep cars where cars belong. They don’t need to dominate every square inch of space.

The road was made to be used by both, not just one. But we should share? So you think cars should be able to drive on bike paths too right? Otherwise it would be “discrimination.”

I’ve seen cars try to get onto bike paths… honestly, if they were wider, I’m sure more drivers would try.

Drivers already park in designated bike lanes as a matter of entitlement.

When I say it’s discriminatory to put disproportionate rules on cyclists and pedestrians, I mean exactly that. Large, fast machines should not be sharing space with pedestrians and cyclists. I say the same about high-powered e-bikes… they don’t belong near people.

Roads are built for cars to use first, especially some highways. Sorry if that upsets you but it’s reality. This idea that bikes should be allowed to just crowd a freeway or drive wherever they want without any rules and impede people, businesses, and emergency services is delusional.

Yes, unfortunately, much of North America is car-centric in their design. But things are changing, like in Montreal, where some roads are being given back to pedestrians.

Bikes don’t impede people, businesses, or emergency services. Cars do. Parked cars, cars in gridlock, cars that have crashed, and now major roadways are closed, cars not yielding to firetrucks, and especially large SUVs taking up far more space than the single occupant they are carrying.

The amount of space that bikes and people on foot take up is minimal. If you want to move people you get them out of cars.

If you really, truly think that the only way to show someone that biker safety issues exist is by causing massive disruption to people, businesses, and emergency services while putting lives at risk there’s no convo to be had.

I don’t. I think it’s one way, but it’s certainly not the only way.

Out of curiosity, do get this fired up about “massive disruption to people, businesses, and emergency services” when other events do the same? Or is it only protesting cyclists that you have a problem with?

Like, does your blood boil when your local Santa Claus parade closes some major streets in the area? Or when a major music festival comes to town? Or the Olympics? Or… GASP… road construction to fix the damage caused by large vehicles causes significant closures?

There are 1001 disruptions caused by human activity, celebration, and protests. Yet, you’ve got a problem with Critical Mass. Pick your battles, man.

Bookmarking “headscale”!

I only recently started using Tailscale because it makes connecting to my local network through a Windows VM running in Boxes on Linux a hell of a lot easier than figuring out how to set up a networked bridge.

This sounds like a great alternative, and it looks like it can even work on a Synology NAS.

Then why did you bring up the pride parade?

It was sarcasm… you’re comparing regular traffic rules during regular traffic to a large protest, and expecting that everyone will be following the same rules. It’s just not reality.

Many bikers break laws about where to cross or how to handle intersections and are just ignored all the time.

See, that’s where the problem is.

Cyclists and pedestrians are unfairly expected to act like multi-ton vehicles. They are not, and should not, have the same rules.

For instance, cyclists should be using the Idaho Stop (meaning: treat red lights as stop signs and stop signs as yield signs) because it’s SAFER, more efficient, and improves traffic flow.

Pedestrians shouldn’t be forced to cross roads only at crosswalks. “Jaywalking” is some BS nonsense made up to make pedestrians look like the bad guys. People don’t need the same rules as heavy machinery travelling at 10-20x their speed.

There are studies showing that when cyclists “break the rules”, it’s often for safety. Motorists do not, and cannot, make the same excuse.

Do these people not know about side streets or bike paths or anything else? There are places to bike outside of traffic.

Discrimination. Cyclists and pedestrians should not be forced to go somewhere else, because of cars.

On the flip side, if a motorist sees thousands of cyclists taking up the street, they should detour someplace else. It’s only fair. /s

So the only way to show people that bikers exist is by massively disrupting traffic and causing safety issues?

Yes. As with any other protest, you have greater impact with greater numbers. This brings greater safety, too. “Disrupting traffic” is funny… does the movement of people only matter if they are in cars? What about the thousands of cyclists who were in constant motion, not creating their own congestion or being slowed down? Motorists can only dream of that kind of efficiency.

That’s how people-first transportation infrastructure works, BTW. As a society, we should strive for this level of people-moving infrastructure.

Or it shows the government that bikers don’t listen to traffic laws and do whatever they want.

There is no evidence of that. On the contrary, I’ve seen local representatives join in these unplanned group rides 🤭

See, this has been going on for 35 years and the only thing you can point at is maybe it might have possible sped up some cycling infrastructure. Maybe. Yah, that’s not a lot of progress for 35 years of this nonsense.

Hmm. Except for the fact that cities who host these events have been getting infrastructure upgrades, often at a faster pace. It puts pressure on local governments to act. These cyclists are voters, too, and they know it.

This is just wild… People need traffic rules. Have you ever been in a large crowded city? Do you know all the foot TRAFFIC rules? There is literally a section of code on just this. And yes, cars exist, but what do you propose to avoid needing these rules, have no cars at all? That’s absurd. Look at rural areas and tell me how that works.

Oh man. Have you ever seen traffic rules in a crowded mall? What about at a large venue event? Have you ever been to a very busy city where cars are blocked from access to certain roads? No traffic rules for pedestrians, because pedestrians aren’t hurling by at 100km/h pushing 2000lbs of metal around.

Traffic rules are there because of cars.

If you look at any laws where a pedestrian could get a fine for “breaking the rules”, it’s nearly always because they are “breaking rules” designed specifically because of cars!

No, I would prefer they don’t disrupt an entire city for some performance that has gone on for 35 years with nothing to show for it. It’s just an excuse to protest and “stick it to the drivers.”

It sounds like you just don’t want them to be able to protest.

Protests around the world happen all the time. Not just a few thousand people, but sometimes hundreds of thousands or more.

Even pedestrians do the same, for the same reasons, in “Reclaim the streets” protests.

Ok, now imagine you are late to pick up a family member from the hospital, or you’re going to miss an interview, or a million other things.

My dude, these things happen IN REGULAR CAR TRAFFIC, on a daily basis. In fact, because of car traffic congestion, even pedestrians who have nothing to do with driving, are inconvenienced and delayed. Not fair, is it?

There is no time/place for a protest that would work well for everyone. By their very nature, this is why they are effective.

But I will say that emergency vehicles are never blocked by these protests, or any protest that I’ve ever witnessed. I have seen regular traffic block fire trucks, though.

If someone hates cyclists for doing something like this they must be a bigot and racist?

I’m saying that the same intolerance towards a minority group of cyclists often spills into other groups.

You can hate that a protest is inconveniencing your drive home from work, but to hate a person for exercising their right to protest for better road safety is very much in the same vein as bigotry.

You’ve decided that drivers are the enemy and so now they suddenly don’t matter at all.

I am a driver. I have been inconvenienced by other people’s protests. I’ve never once said I’ve hated a person for protesting for their right to safety, better working conditions, equal pay, or a host of other societal problems that should be challenged.

You can be pro-animal rights and think that what an animal rights group does is wrong.

Absolutely. I’ve been part of animal rights protests, and have been critical of the approach that some AR groups take.

But I don’t think the feeling of HATING a protester has ever crossed my mind at all. Unless they were a Nazi. I’m fine with hating Nazis.

edit: grammar

Air-fried oatmeal, FTW!

Argh… my browser crashed as I had almost finished my reply. 😱

I’ll condense my points:

Looking into criticall mass is says “These events are spontaneous and unpermitted.”

Yes, it’s a protest. Just like with protests involving pedestrians, the streets get filled and people “ignore the rules”.

Lol, so cops should just mail tickets to people randomly? You have to catch someone committing a crime to charge them with it. That’s how the law works…

To this point, let me expand on what I mean.

The absence of a ticket does not mean the behaviour doesn’t exist. There are a LOT of motorists who run reds, ignore stop signs, drive over the speed limit, don’t use signals, make illegal turns, park illegally, drive while intoxicated, etc. More than you’d think.

If you set up automated speed cameras, red light cameras, DUI checkpoints, and school zone blitzes, suddenly you realize that it’s more than just a few drivers behaving badly. And that’s during normal traffic, not during a protest.

If it’s not pointless, please show me the changes it has pushed or championed. I would love to know all the good work that came from CM aside from performative protesting.

It’s hard to quantify, because this form of protest operates on many levels:

1. It gets a large number of cyclists together, making riding safer than as individuals. It also gets people who were too afraid to cycle around traffic a safe space to ride.
2. The visual of a large group brings attention to the needs of cyclists. “Nobody rides a bike” NIMBYs take note when these events happen.
3. It puts pressures on municipal governments to take notice of the demand for safer cycling infrastructure. Some would argue that Critical Mass events are what sped up the development of cycling infrastructure around the world.

Yah, so they can safely ignore all traffic rules and literally break laws to put on this show. Laws meant to keep people safe. You realize that right?

As with other protests, this is normal. And those traffic rules… are only there because cars make public spaces unsafe. People don’t need traffic rules.

They are not only unsafely trying to control traffic, they are causing mass congestion

On the flip side, would you prefer that every single cyclist in that group STOP at every single red light and stop sign? I’m a massive fan of that type of malicious compliance, so I’d be OK with that, too.

I mean take a step back and look at this from a normal persons point of view, someone who is not an avid cyclist. This doesn’t make me think they need more safety or protection; this makes me think they are reckless and a nuisance. This does nothing but make drivers hate bikers more, this doesn’t change minds, at all.

Man, I don’t even know what to say.

When I see protests, even when I don’t know the motivations or goals, I still respect and value the right to protest.

And if someone “hates cyclists” because of a protest like Critical Mass, they probably hate black people, gays, Palestinians, workers, the disabled, unions, First Nations, environmentalists, animal rights, and other groups of people who deserve to be heard and seen through public protests.

these were both in the same, single lane roundabout.

Oy, vey! LOL I bet they found a reason to blame you. 😫

Cool, as they pass drivers. Did you see them drive en masse the wrong way through red lights? Come on, you know you haven’t. You know how dangerous it is. This is so dishonest.

Are there bad drivers, yes. But no where, in any city, are drivers doing what these bikers did. Taking up the entire road to drive the wrong way as dozens of them go through red lights.

You do realize that this was a Critical Mass event, right?

In that context, YES, I’ve seen cars in large groups going through red lights and driving the wrong way during similar events. In fact, just this past weekend, I saw numerous cars going through red lights at a local Pride Parade 😘

… but I don’t claim that cars drive both ways on the road and through red lights by the dozens.

If you take a survey of stop signs, you’ll find that the majority of motorists do NOT stop at those signs. Hundreds of cars per intersection per day.

This shit happens all the time everywhere? Really. Everywhere, cars are just all going the same direction, ignoring every traffic law en masse with no cops doing anything?

This ship happens all the time, everywhere, was referring to the list I wrote of things I encounter on a regular basis.

I didn’t touch on speeding.

Cops will only “do something” if they can catch someone.

And when we have “traffic enforcement blitzes”, what do you know? We catch a LOT of drivers behaving badly. It’s too bad we only do this a few times out of the year.

They are acting extremely unsafe for no reason.

I think you’d be surprised to learn about the history (and purpose) of Critical Mass, because it’s not “for no reason”. It’s quite literally a form of direct action to promote cycling safety and activism.

And the fact that they are riding in a large group makes them safer.

These events happen all around the world, and are widely celebrated as powerful social movements.

In a quite unexpected turn of events, it is claimed that OpenAI’s ChatGPT “got absolutely wrecked on the beginner level” while playing Atari Chess.

Who the hell thought this was “unexpected”?

What’s next? ChatGPT vs. Microwave to see which can make instant oatmeal the fastest? 😂

Not pictured the 5000lbs of watermelons, the 2500lbs of onions (those will last a lot longer).

That’s brutal. This time of the year has festivals pretty much every weekend for the next few months, so can these be donated to those events, so that it doesn’t go to waste?

As much as I love roundabouts, I agree that some drivers simply have no idea how they work. They stop when they don’t need to, and go when they should be yielding. And as you describe, the ones with multiple lanes are even more “confusing”, despite them being quite logical in design and implementation.

Stay safe.

Yes.

I’ve witnessed cars driving in the wrong lanes (headed towards me) as they recklessly pass drivers.

I’ve seen drivers turning onto dedicated bike paths.

I’ve seen drivers jumping curbs. In the city, they’ve even managed to hop TALL, concrete barriers protecting bike lanes.

I’ve seen numerous cars flying through stop signs and red lights. At least a few times per week. And even more “stopping” on crosswalks.

I’ve witnessed a teen getting hit by a car while she used a crosswalk in front of her school. I’ve nearly been hit several times crossing at intersections, too. I saw an elderly man who was almost run over by a car turning right without slowing down (the driver then yelled at the old man).

If you think these are rare occurrences, you likely don’t live anywhere near cars. This shit happens all the time, everywhere.

And I won’t even bring up aggressive drivers who are hostile towards cyclists and use their cars as weapons.

A tactical pool noodle with a very abrasive end should do the trick.

Have you ever seen a person with a disability who uses a walker or wheelchair try to drop down from a tall curb?

Regardless of who’s liable, they don’t want to get hurt doing something completely unnecessary.

I’m acting like the company shouldn’t be assholes, and use the abundance of space along the rest of the front face of that building.