Source your claims. Right-wing think tanks, right-wing media and influencers, right-wing organizations, the DNC, Hillary’s campaign, and even liberal media created Trump and allowed him to rise to power.
Trump was nobody before the media put him on blast. If there were so many “Russian bots” that enabled his rise to power, prove it - it should be easy for you.
I’m sorry are there some email leaks I’m unaware of that reveal that Russia actually wasn’t involved in helping Trump get elected at all or what are you trying to argue here?
July 22: WikiLeaks publishes 20,000 emails from seven key DNC officials. The emails show them disparaging Bernie Sanders and favoring Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential primaries.
Did Russia make them do that too?
I’m arguing that I trust Julian over Stone and anybody else who claims otherwise. You are free to disagree.
You keep changing the subject. I’m talking about Russia influencing the US election to lean towards fascism. What does that have to do with DNC officials being biased against Bernie?
It was a major relevation from the leaks, which you are free to attribute to Russia if you believe Roger Stone and a source (BuzzFeed) that provides no evidence, but claims that Wikileaks “apparently” contacted Guccifer 2.0.
I am not doubting that Wikileaks or Julian specifically contacted Trump Jr. Doesn’t make him pro-Trump, or pro-Russia, just anti-Clinton. Julian has not been kind to the Russian government to the best of my knowledge.
The whole Guccifer 2.0 thing is hard for non-intelligence individuals to follow because there are no proper sources or evidence that one can readily find. I was around at the time, and was quite active on social media, and nothing made sense back then, and it continues to make no sense after years of investigations and articles written about it. Roger Stone seemed to be pivotal in legitimizing the role of Guccifer 2.0 in the Wikileaks releases, from my understanding.
Maybe I just suck at reading these articles. I am willing to accept that and I will be looking into this further when I am not sick. Regardless, thanks for engaging - my perspective will likely evolve with your help and direction. I am interested in the truth and I don’t want to take anyone or anything at face-value.
The source is a verified, leaked email from Clinton’s campaign and an internal DNC memo, if you cared to read. Who cares about Salon. The Wikileaks releases are the only meat of election interference, which according to Julian, didn’t come from Russia.
Everybody has seen those pages, and reporting on the subject - but the impact was minimal during the 2016 elections and onwards, I’d argue.
Russian operatives maintaining Facebook/Twitter accounts to organize small protests is truly insignificant and Russian-linked actors buying ads (that ultimately didn’t reach many) to manipulate the election is a failure of the companies involved for accepting the money and running the ads.
Russian operatives maintaining Facebook/Twitter accounts to organize small protests is truly insignificant and Russian-linked actors buying ads (that ultimately didn’t reach many) to manipulate the election is a failure of the companies involved. If Facebook/Twitter algorithms widely promoted these accounts and ads, it’s another failure.
Yes, many failures. Are you at least admitting it happened? That Russia used these failures to manipulate American elections?
Julian was not on anybody’s side in particular, there is no evidence that Julian ever favored Putin or the government there. Go and actually listen to past recordings of the guy to get a handle on his beliefs and principles. What did Russia ever do for him?
I am admitting that some stuff happened, but that nothing truly significant occurred. Hillary won the popular vote by a wide margin. The only thing that occurred was Red Scare 2.0 with ample hysteria - tech company incompetence aside. What ensued was everybody accusing everybody of being a Russian actor, with no proof.
The push for Trump was multi-pronged, see my initial response for the meat of what created Trump.
Julian was not on anybody’s side in particular, there is no evidence that Julian favored Putin or the government there.
They consistently concealed evidence against the GOP and Russia, they outright denied claims made against Russia on their official accounts, they repeated Russian propaganda… come on man. It was obvious.
What did Russia ever do for him?
Be enemies of his enemies.
Red Scare 2.0
I’m sorry, are you suggesting Russia is somehow communist? They’re fascist, and they’re spreading fascism throughout the world on the internet, and they need to be stopped.
What ensued was everybody accusing everybody of being a Russian actor, with no proof.
What are you talking about? Countless members of Trump’s staff were arrested and sent to jail for being Russian spies. The NRA had a Russian spy funneling money. Right wing radio and youtube hosts across America were caught taking Russian money.
They consistently concealed evidence against the GOP and Russia, they outright denied claims made against Russia on their official accounts, they repeated Russian propaganda… come on man. It was obvious.
I’m sorry, are you suggesting Russia is somehow communist? They’re fascist, and they’re spreading fascism throughout the world on the internet, and they need to be stopped. […] Right wing radio and youtube hosts across America were caught taking Russian money.
I’m suggesting that what ensued was hysteria. With or without Russia’s financial support, right-wing influencers and spaces have continued to prop up Trump.
What are you talking about? Countless members of Trump’s staff were arrested and sent to jail for being Russian spies. The NRA had a Russian spy funneling money.
I am talking about online discourse, not the failure of the state to protect itself from compromised individuals in high positions.
“Assange, despite his claims to scientific journalism, emphasized to me that his mission is to expose injustice, not to provide an even-handed record of events.”
Why did he feel it was so imperative to fight Clinton? It wasn’t simply because he thought she was a demon. It wasn’t specifically because he was pro-Russia or pro-Trump, even if he did collude with the latter (and former if the Guccifer 2.0 source of leaks is to be believed). I want Buzzfeed’s and whatever else’s source for the leaked DMs between Wikileaks and Guccifer 2.0, and Roger Stone can fuck off - I don’t believe a word he says.
That’s every intelligence agency in the country saying you’re wrong.
I don’t see the state operating in my interest or anybody else’s, including its own interest. Things have been quite dysfunctional. Intelligence agencies routinely do not properly cite their sources, does that link provide actual sources instead of “trust me bro”?
Okay, good, we can agree that Russia is our enemy. That’s some common ground we can work from.
Russia is hostile to the US, and the US is hostile to Russia. Everybody is in the crossfire of governments than do not represent or serve them.
Source your claims. Right-wing think tanks, right-wing media and influencers, right-wing organizations, the DNC, Hillary’s campaign, and even liberal media created Trump and allowed him to rise to power.
https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
Trump was nobody before the media put him on blast. If there were so many “Russian bots” that enabled his rise to power, prove it - it should be easy for you.
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf
Salon is compromised, they’re part of the Russia denialists.
The email leaks are verified, try again.
I’m sorry are there some email leaks I’m unaware of that reveal that Russia actually wasn’t involved in helping Trump get elected at all or what are you trying to argue here?
Did Russia make them do that too?
I’m arguing that I trust Julian over Stone and anybody else who claims otherwise. You are free to disagree.
You keep changing the subject. I’m talking about Russia influencing the US election to lean towards fascism. What does that have to do with DNC officials being biased against Bernie?
It was a major relevation from the leaks, which you are free to attribute to Russia if you believe Roger Stone and a source (BuzzFeed) that provides no evidence, but claims that Wikileaks “apparently” contacted Guccifer 2.0.
Removed by mod
I am not doubting that Wikileaks or Julian specifically contacted Trump Jr. Doesn’t make him pro-Trump, or pro-Russia, just anti-Clinton. Julian has not been kind to the Russian government to the best of my knowledge.
The whole Guccifer 2.0 thing is hard for non-intelligence individuals to follow because there are no proper sources or evidence that one can readily find. I was around at the time, and was quite active on social media, and nothing made sense back then, and it continues to make no sense after years of investigations and articles written about it. Roger Stone seemed to be pivotal in legitimizing the role of Guccifer 2.0 in the Wikileaks releases, from my understanding.
Maybe I just suck at reading these articles. I am willing to accept that and I will be looking into this further when I am not sick. Regardless, thanks for engaging - my perspective will likely evolve with your help and direction. I am interested in the truth and I don’t want to take anyone or anything at face-value.
Well I can sure as shit do better than Salon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency#Timeline_of_the_Internet_Research_Agency_interference_in_United_States_elections
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/DIG/DIG-Declassified-HPSCI-Report-Manufactured-Russia-Hoax-July2025.pdf
The source is a verified, leaked email from Clinton’s campaign and an internal DNC memo, if you cared to read. Who cares about Salon. The Wikileaks releases are the only meat of election interference, which according to Julian, didn’t come from Russia.
Everybody has seen those pages, and reporting on the subject - but the impact was minimal during the 2016 elections and onwards, I’d argue.
Russian operatives maintaining Facebook/Twitter accounts to organize small protests is truly insignificant and Russian-linked actors buying ads (that ultimately didn’t reach many) to manipulate the election is a failure of the companies involved for accepting the money and running the ads.
What are you talking about? Julian was on Russia’s side.
On what basis would you argue that? The DNI disagrees:
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf
Yes, many failures. Are you at least admitting it happened? That Russia used these failures to manipulate American elections?
Julian was not on anybody’s side in particular, there is no evidence that Julian ever favored Putin or the government there. Go and actually listen to past recordings of the guy to get a handle on his beliefs and principles. What did Russia ever do for him?
I am admitting that some stuff happened, but that nothing truly significant occurred. Hillary won the popular vote by a wide margin. The only thing that occurred was Red Scare 2.0 with ample hysteria - tech company incompetence aside. What ensued was everybody accusing everybody of being a Russian actor, with no proof.
The push for Trump was multi-pronged, see my initial response for the meat of what created Trump.
They consistently concealed evidence against the GOP and Russia, they outright denied claims made against Russia on their official accounts, they repeated Russian propaganda… come on man. It was obvious.
Be enemies of his enemies.
I’m sorry, are you suggesting Russia is somehow communist? They’re fascist, and they’re spreading fascism throughout the world on the internet, and they need to be stopped.
What are you talking about? Countless members of Trump’s staff were arrested and sent to jail for being Russian spies. The NRA had a Russian spy funneling money. Right wing radio and youtube hosts across America were caught taking Russian money.
Why are you denying all of this?
Citation needed, citation needed, citation needed. Convince me.
Why did Assange see Clinton as an enemy?
I’m suggesting that what ensued was hysteria. With or without Russia’s financial support, right-wing influencers and spaces have continued to prop up Trump.
I am talking about online discourse, not the failure of the state to protect itself from compromised individuals in high positions.
https://thedispatch.com/article/how-julian-assange-shaped-the-2016-election/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-secret-correspondence-between-donald-trump-jr-and-wikileaks/545738/
https://theintercept.com/2017/11/15/wikileaks-julian-assange-donald-trump-jr-hillary-clinton/
See above sources.
Convince me. Because I’ve posted an overwhelming amount of evidence for you to suggest it was all “hysteria”.
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf
That’s every intelligence agency in the country saying you’re wrong.
Okay, good, we can agree that Russia is our enemy. That’s some common ground we can work from.
“Assange, despite his claims to scientific journalism, emphasized to me that his mission is to expose injustice, not to provide an even-handed record of events.”
Why did he feel it was so imperative to fight Clinton? It wasn’t simply because he thought she was a demon. It wasn’t specifically because he was pro-Russia or pro-Trump, even if he did collude with the latter (and former if the Guccifer 2.0 source of leaks is to be believed). I want Buzzfeed’s and whatever else’s source for the leaked DMs between Wikileaks and Guccifer 2.0, and Roger Stone can fuck off - I don’t believe a word he says.
I don’t see the state operating in my interest or anybody else’s, including its own interest. Things have been quite dysfunctional. Intelligence agencies routinely do not properly cite their sources, does that link provide actual sources instead of “trust me bro”?
Russia is hostile to the US, and the US is hostile to Russia. Everybody is in the crossfire of governments than do not represent or serve them.