Israel and allies have spent enormous resources convincing themselves and anyone they can that Palestinians don’t exist.

That is just a list of Russian propaganda points. There is no evidence for any of it.

I am not so sure who is using who at the minute, but sure. What’s for certain is that the Russian military, such as it was, is suffering heavy losses, with plenty of busted myths (invulnerable hypersonics, indomitable Armata etc…). It’s a good return for the USA helping Ukraine, no doubt about it.

Turns out Russia are a second tier military, who was halted by previous generation US handheld anti-tank weapons and Ukraine are holding their own using second tier equipment for the most part. Turns out when you put loyalists in charge of the military, they might not be so effective. All the bloviating nonsense coming out of the Kremlin turned out to be hot rectal air.

As for a cease fire, sure, so long as Russia doesn’t use that time to reinforce their positions in Ukraine. Because they are occupying Ukrainian land. Would it be acceptable to give up that land (because that is effectively what a cease fire would accomplish, no matter what the “talks” determine)?. Russia understands only strength and force, whether they are using it or recieving it. Giving them a chance to strengthen while “talks” are ongoing only strengthens their position. As we talk Ukraine is encroaching on Donetsk airport, occupied since 2014. Continuing to weaken Russia creates a better position to negotiate from.

And Russia reneged on a prior treaty with Ukraine too, so it’s not like they are trustworthy. They have already openly stated Ukraine has no right to exist.

Using Ukraine to offload old weapon systems, fund the US military industrial complex, test weapons in a peer to peer scenario, and destroy Russia as much as possible through Ukrainian deaths rather than American.

The fact that you keep ignoring is that Ukraine is asking for the equipment. NOT asking for any boots on the ground but their own. They are willing to fight this war, they need equipment.

Not just the President of Ukraine or the government, but pretty much the whole of civil society.

The US played the same role towards the UK as it is playing now towards Ukraine - providing aid - until Pearl Harbor.

I am saying that the US is using Ukraine and spinning it as a moral good.

Using Ukraine how? Spinning it how? As far as I can tell Ukrainians are the ones begging for help. And fighting off an aggressor such as Russia is a moral good as far as I can tell. The thing I’m curious about is the constant “fear of escalation” which means we have been providing aid too slowly.

I don’t support killing civilians. I don’t support killing conscripted people. I don’t support killing volunteers who joined because they were struggling in a system that is designed to entice the poor to fight. I don’t even support killing those who joined because their mind is warped to hyper patriotism by propaganda due to the system they live in.

Of course not. I don’t want anyone to die for the ego of a sociopathic cunt. I also want everyone to be happy, live long and prosper, and I also wish we could all ride magic flying unicorns to the infinite ice cream parlor in the Bahamas and never gain weight. There are wishes and there is reality.

I would rather see peace talks, collaboration in demining and rebuilding, and genuine interest in what the people of the region want.

This is all nice, except you have to contend with Russia. The people of the region who are not Russia want security and they can’t have it with Russia as a neighbor, unless they join an alliance such as NATO, or accept Russian enslavement.

There are precisely two countries who are Russian “allies” in the region - Belorus which is occupied, and Hungary which is run by a similar Mafia, but it’s also protected from Russia by NATO and the EU (I really wish they weren’t).

You are implying that this war is somehow orchestrated by the United States, since you are whatabouting that way.

The United States is not a belligerent here. Ukraine is the one getting invaded, and Russia is doing the invading - that is the situation. Every time you whatabout to the US you imply that Ukrainians have no agency and no rights to decide for themselves or defend themselves, or are somehow under the control of Joe Biden or some shit (hint: they aren’t - polling in Ukraine is very clear that a large majority want to keep fighting until Russia is gone from their country).

So yeah, “bruh”, I’m pointing out that when we talk about Russia and Ukraine, let’s talk about Russia and Ukraine. If you want to talk about the wider geostrategic implications of the USA, Europe, NATO, and various other nations providing aid to Ukraine, let’s dance:

I suppose your moral grounds aren’t shaken by Russia seeking help in North Korea and Iran to continue killing Ukrainian civilians? That is an actual whatabout.

Or perhaps that NATO and the EU are voluntary alliances that nations are free to leave at any moment (and don’t want in the case of NATO because of Russian aggression). Very nice, “bruh”.

You trolls are so predictable.

Niger’s junta knows this how?

Dismissing something for being a fallacy is also a fallacy

Lol

Also, someone pointing out hypocrisy of other nations shouldn’t be seen as a bad thing, especially if it’s pointing out the hypocrisy of the most powerful and influential nation to ever exist.

I didn’t realize Ukraine was the most powerful nation to ever exist.

Well then discuss.

What justifies the torture, rape, pillage, kidnapping, Russia has inflicted on Ukraine?

That’s all well and good, but that’s never taught at all to Russians and ignored by tankies.

And if you actually read your dumb narrative, your first paragraph is contradicted by your second. You really need to work on your story.

Here’s the truth: the USSR, like Nazi Germany, was an authoritarian expansionist nightmare that was happy to get Poland for free. They only fight the Nazis because they had to. And Stalin was a shit strategist.

One thing they always forget to mention is the USSR was allied to Nazi Germany in order to partition Poland.

No doubt the Soviets suffered greatly in WW2, and contributed greatly to the allied victory. On the other hand they did not do it alone, and they certainly did not expect to have to fight the Germans at all, at least not at that point.

It’s a conscript army. They shouldn’t be.

Why should Russia strategically be required to invade exactly?

I’ve never heard a cogent argument on this point.

If the opposition supports the enemy, you perhaps should.

Edit: you asshats think Russia should allow pro-Ukraine parties to run for the Duma, or the presidency? Or is it always a double standard with you?

Whataboutism is literally a logical fallacy. We are talking about Russia, so talk about Russia.

25% ish of the Russian population live in huts and shit in holes in outhouses for a lack of plumbing (mostly ethnic minorities), all while the ruling Mafia collects yachts and private jets, and launches wars.

I’m not saying there isn’t wealth inequality elsewhere, but how about a bit of perspective here. Russia cannot actually conscript too many ethnic Russians or use them as cannon fodder, since that is the only ethnicity in Russia that matters politically, since they are the middle class. Instead they send the colonized people, who happen to be those who shit in holes for a lack of plumbing.

If they held elections Russia would bomb the polling sites.

It’s dangerous and costly, and r/n Ukraine is under martial law for good reason.

Such a worthless use of brain cells. Imagine being the product of billions of years of evolution and becoming that.

So from having had a few exchanges with pro Russian accounts on Lemmy (which seems to be infested with a few very active ones) this is a summary of their arguments:

• “Ukraine is Nazi”
• “Well far right parties got a total of under 6% of the vote, and they elected a Jewish man president”
• “yeah but Bandera and whatabout America”

• “Ukraine killed ethnic Russians”
• “A huge percentage of their population are ethnic Russians, including in government, and they are fine, and were until the Russian invasion. And now it’s Russia that has killed, maimed and raped more ethnic Russians, including civilians, than Ukraine every did or even could. Including their own people thorough incompetence and corruption”.
• “Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America”

• “Ukraine is fighting because they are forced to by their colonial masters, the USA and NATO, and Ukrainians will keep dying so long as they keep being armed”
• “Actually > 90% of the population wants to continue fighting for their country back, so what you’re basically saying is you think Ukrainians should be abandoned to Russian enslavement”
• “Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America”

• “NATO and USA are colonialists and this is just more colonialism”
• “Actually both Russia and China are actual, bone fide land empires, with ethnic minorities that are forced to live like colonized people - including doing the fighting for Russia while their families back home live in misery and squalor and Putin’s Mafia collect mansions, private jets and yachts”
• “Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America”