When I hit the power button, it turns off. It still does its shutdown and all, but it’s not an extended negotiation where I find a bunch of programs that are refusing to “let me” do what I want the computer to do, and have to try to make each of them happy. It just turns off.
Double edged sword. Applications asking if you want to save your stuff aren’t designed to annoy you, they’re designed to save you from the headache of losing your work.
But I can see why you’d want the power button to be a “stronger signal” than clicking Shut Down in some menu.
I just flip through all the workspaces, make sure there’s nothing going on I care about, and then hit the button.
Computers that teach you not to do that, but instead to just blindly pick “shut down” and then assume that the computer will protect you against having anything unsaved, but also refuse to shut down if there’s some app this is not cooperating, have 0 upside compared to the other way.
There’s a line somewhere between “computers that teach you not to do that” and computers that prevent dire consequences when you make a human mistake. The “just don’t do that” policy is never enough. If there are no safeguards, at one point the mistake will be made.
Yeah, I can agree with that, I’m just saying at the moment of shutdown isn’t the time to do that and often the programs that are holding up my shutdown are doing it for reasons of their own, not because they’re trying to help me by saving my work. Just do autosave and let me shut my stuff down.
Until your toddler presses it and the OS just tosses all the work that you didn’t save yet. It’s good with a safeguard, and Windows will eventually force shut down after a timeout.
What negotiation? I have a hard time to follow what you mean. Which operating system does turn off when shutting down? If it does not, then either its configured to do so (or not to) or there is an issue that needs to be handled and resolved. You don’t want your PC turn off immediately, so it can do stuff that is needed (such as wait for all drives to write the data) or remove temporary files and unmount drives and so on. Otherwise an instant turn off is equivalent to a crash (including all background services and running applications, losing data, corrupting drives…).
My laptop will send a signal to all programs telling them to shut down, which includes cleaning up their stuff, and then it unmounts the drives, and then it shuts down. It just doesn’t wait forever and make me fix the problem if some program is having trouble shutting down. That is the correct behavior.
I do get that it’s nice to be protected against having your work blown away. As a first step, the idea of checking with every program to make sure it’s okay to turn off was a good progress, back in the past when it was first invented. The solution in the present day to that is autosave. The solution is definitely not to leave all the user’s work unsaved for a potentially unlimited amount of time, and then refuse to shut down if there is any terminal that still has an ssh session open, any settings window still open, or any GIMP session with files exported but not saved as .xcf.
Literally 2/3 of those obstacles happen pretty much every time I shut down my Mac, and I have to wander through the programs resolving programs’ problems that have nothing to do with saving my work. It’s annoying. I do understand that, with the other way, you have to go around checking that you have no work unsaved before shutting down. But, if you are mature enough to do that, then the “init 0” way is objectively better.
Pretty sure both windows and macos allow programs to interrupt shutdown, usually if there’s any unsaved documents open. I quite like that feature actually, if it’s used correctly anyway.
Double edged sword. Applications asking if you want to save your stuff aren’t designed to annoy you, they’re designed to save you from the headache of losing your work.
But I can see why you’d want the power button to be a “stronger signal” than clicking Shut Down in some menu.
I guess now is a good time to knee-jerkily yell “session management!”
Apps and DEs with proper session management in place will still save your work in progress and restore it on next logon.
I just flip through all the workspaces, make sure there’s nothing going on I care about, and then hit the button.
Computers that teach you not to do that, but instead to just blindly pick “shut down” and then assume that the computer will protect you against having anything unsaved, but also refuse to shut down if there’s some app this is not cooperating, have 0 upside compared to the other way.
There’s a line somewhere between “computers that teach you not to do that” and computers that prevent dire consequences when you make a human mistake. The “just don’t do that” policy is never enough. If there are no safeguards, at one point the mistake will be made.
Even by highly trained astronauts: https://wehackthemoon.com/people/margaret-hamilton-her-daughters-simulation
Yeah, I can agree with that, I’m just saying at the moment of shutdown isn’t the time to do that and often the programs that are holding up my shutdown are doing it for reasons of their own, not because they’re trying to help me by saving my work. Just do autosave and let me shut my stuff down.
Until your toddler presses it and the OS just tosses all the work that you didn’t save yet. It’s good with a safeguard, and Windows will eventually force shut down after a timeout.
2025 no autosave skill issue
I’m a big fan of
init 0. My friends say I’m living on the edge but if an application can’t handle it, I don’t want it.i KNEW that what it does seemed a little too fast! idc tho cause it hasn’t yet caused any trouble lol
Firmware update: am I a joke to you?
rip that document you forgot to save
What negotiation? I have a hard time to follow what you mean. Which operating system does turn off when shutting down? If it does not, then either its configured to do so (or not to) or there is an issue that needs to be handled and resolved. You don’t want your PC turn off immediately, so it can do stuff that is needed (such as wait for all drives to write the data) or remove temporary files and unmount drives and so on. Otherwise an instant turn off is equivalent to a crash (including all background services and running applications, losing data, corrupting drives…).
My laptop will send a signal to all programs telling them to shut down, which includes cleaning up their stuff, and then it unmounts the drives, and then it shuts down. It just doesn’t wait forever and make me fix the problem if some program is having trouble shutting down. That is the correct behavior.
I do get that it’s nice to be protected against having your work blown away. As a first step, the idea of checking with every program to make sure it’s okay to turn off was a good progress, back in the past when it was first invented. The solution in the present day to that is autosave. The solution is definitely not to leave all the user’s work unsaved for a potentially unlimited amount of time, and then refuse to shut down if there is any terminal that still has an ssh session open, any settings window still open, or any GIMP session with files exported but not saved as .xcf.
Literally 2/3 of those obstacles happen pretty much every time I shut down my Mac, and I have to wander through the programs resolving programs’ problems that have nothing to do with saving my work. It’s annoying. I do understand that, with the other way, you have to go around checking that you have no work unsaved before shutting down. But, if you are mature enough to do that, then the “init 0” way is objectively better.
Pretty sure both windows and macos allow programs to interrupt shutdown, usually if there’s any unsaved documents open. I quite like that feature actually, if it’s used correctly anyway.