The victim plays a part in how they are treated. You can compare with walking up to an American police officer and acting all cocky. These people hate when they are not respected. If Greta was not famous, this behavior would actually be quite dangerous and she could get killed.
So in your opinion if a prison guard beat up and maybe even killed an intimate that would totally be justified as long as the inmate was shouting verbal abuse at them beforehand? What kind of fucked up logic is that? If a prison guard can’t take verbal abuse they’re in the wrong job.
Physically attacking someone simply because they’re shouting abuse at you is never a measured response and prison guards especially should be held to a higher standard than that.
It doesn’t matter if “these people hate when they are not respected”, neither police officers nor prison guards can hit people whenever they feel like it.
However, in the real world, that is often how it is. I dont support that behavior but I also dont think its reasonable to ignore reality completely and act surprised when the obvious happens.
This is strategy on her part, thats all it is, and you guys are thinking she is victim of abuse.
Of course it’s a strategy. This is literally her job, putting herself in situations like that to shine a light on it. That’s what activists do. It’s on the rest of us to do decide whether it’s worth doing something about to combat those issues the activists are highlighting or deciding that we don’t care.
and you guys are thinking she is victim of abuse.
Just because she put herself in that situation on purpose doesn’t mean she’s not a victim.i don’t think she particularly enjoys getting beaten. I’m pretty sure she would’ve preferred if the Israelis had let the ships pass but they all knew this wasn’t just a risk but the likely outcome.
and act surprised when the obvious happens.
Exactly zero people are surprised that’s how this whole thing ended.
What makes you say Greta was cocky? She deserves to be tortured for sailing on her own terms doing her own thing? You’re acting very cocky and I don’t appreciate your lack of respect for basic human rights.
Doing her own thing? You know she is a famous activist right? She went on that boat knowing what would happen of course. This media attention is also what she wanted to happen.
I agree with that, she is trying to do good here. I dont think im victim blaming since I dont see an activist provocing Israeli soldiers as being a victim. She is trying to achieve her goals.
Why do you think she provoked the Israeli soldiers? She might not have done. The Israelis might just be treating her badly because they don’t like her.
I guess we don’t know for sure what has happened. I’m not sure I believe the Israeli government these days though, given that they deny the assessment of experts that people are starving in Gaza:
Yeah, I mean you never explicitly stated it wasn’t the fault of the Israeli’s here. But I think that is still implied by what you said, and that’s why people are raging against you.
There’s a nuanced issue here about fault and responsibility, I think. The Israelis are absolutely at fault for any mistreatment of Greta (or any prisoner), and the Israelis are responsible for their actions, but Greta is also responsible for putting herself in harm’s way. However, Greta isn’t necessarily at fault for doing so, and furthermore her responsibility for her own actions must in no way detract from the responsibility nor fault by the Israeli forces.
Responsibility isn’t portioned out in percentages. Someone can be 100% responsible for something, but someone else can also have some responsibility. However, fault is portioned out, and a victim is in no way at fault for the fault of their attacker.
But your original point was that Greta “provoked” the Israelis. This is you implying fault. And I don’t think you can reasonably justify this assumption.
Nobody likes being disrespected, who cares if you’re an “American police officer”. They are not special.
So you’re saying nobody can disrespect an American police officer or have their own opinion? If an American police officer gets their feelings hurt, you’re saying it’s okay to imprison and torture anyone who disrespects them? Hope you never disagree with a police officer and are imprisoned and tortured.
Honestly, your opinions are useless drivel. You aren’t famous anyway. What makes you think your opinions aren’t going to get you killed?
Of course im not saying its ok, but clearly its asking for problems if you do that. In this case, greta was asking for trouble because its her strategy to win minds and hearts by getting publicity like this. She knew you guys wouldnt ask what she was doing and you would only focus on the Israeli response to what she was doing. :)
Anyway, I guess you dont see any strategy here and just a innocent women being abused… :)
Israel wants to starve people to death and have everyone else just let it happen.
Greta wants to feed those people and get some news time so others might join in and help.
Israel detained her and are now imprisoning and committing light sexual assault against her.
You also have a motive. You want to protect Israel and question Greta’s motives. You are effectively a Zionist with the way you are questioning this. Should other people also be tortured if they try to help those who are starving to death because they deserve it?
You are effectively an Israeli asset. You are supporting the genocide by questioning any opposition to it. There is very little we can do to oppose this and you’re helping it. Stop it now.
This type of conceded, complaisant attitude is why everything is as bad as it is. How about instead of being a keyboard warrior you make yourself useful? Maybe it’s people like you who don’t deserve this privilege of victim blaming for staying away from anything scary or worth fighting for.
The fact you put a smiley face after the phrase “innocent woman being abused” would make anyone who is not a psychopath sick.
The smiley was because you guys dont seem to realize all of this is her strategy, so its funny how you all act like an innocent women is being abused, when that is not what is happening here.
Holy shit, having a strategy and using it is inherently bad? Israel has way more “strategy” and they’re getting their way with it. Clearly this isn’t about her using “her strategy” and you have a problem with what she’s trying to accomplish.
You want to murderer children. You want innocent people to suffer. You are such a degenerate. I hope people treat you the same way when you suffer.
Of course they were expecting problems, as they tried to get to Gaza before, so they knew that they could expect Israeli interference. But the way the Israeli authorities are dealing with this is out of proportion. Like Chaotic Altruist was saying, trying to do a morally right thing and sail to Gaza to bring survival goods, should never result in violence and humiliation.
Of course it shouldnt, but we live in a world where it absolute will give problems. We didnt wake up yesterday and now we are completely surprised the world is what it is today.
Imagine if somebody would kick your ass because you write stupid opinions online and then some asshole would say you are responsible for your ass whoopping.
This is a good example of Gramsci’s concept of hegemony. Americans no longer question whether arbitrariness and violence by authority are acceptable. They are so used to it that they perceive it as natural and normal and even defend it.
In a democracy, however, this is absolutely unacceptable. The police are not allowed to mistreat anyone or use unnecessary force. Under no circumstances. No matter how the person behaves. They have no more rights than anyone else. Authority is not a deity. Stop acting like it is.
The victim plays a part in how they are treated. You can compare with walking up to an American police officer and acting all cocky. These people hate when they are not respected. If Greta was not famous, this behavior would actually be quite dangerous and she could get killed.
So in your opinion if a prison guard beat up and maybe even killed an intimate that would totally be justified as long as the inmate was shouting verbal abuse at them beforehand? What kind of fucked up logic is that? If a prison guard can’t take verbal abuse they’re in the wrong job.
Physically attacking someone simply because they’re shouting abuse at you is never a measured response and prison guards especially should be held to a higher standard than that.
It doesn’t matter if “these people hate when they are not respected”, neither police officers nor prison guards can hit people whenever they feel like it.
Of course and I agree with how it should be.
However, in the real world, that is often how it is. I dont support that behavior but I also dont think its reasonable to ignore reality completely and act surprised when the obvious happens.
This is strategy on her part, thats all it is, and you guys are thinking she is victim of abuse.
Whst reality. You are saying stuffs with no proofs
I’m glad we’re on the same page on that at least.
Of course it’s a strategy. This is literally her job, putting herself in situations like that to shine a light on it. That’s what activists do. It’s on the rest of us to do decide whether it’s worth doing something about to combat those issues the activists are highlighting or deciding that we don’t care.
Just because she put herself in that situation on purpose doesn’t mean she’s not a victim.i don’t think she particularly enjoys getting beaten. I’m pretty sure she would’ve preferred if the Israelis had let the ships pass but they all knew this wasn’t just a risk but the likely outcome.
Exactly zero people are surprised that’s how this whole thing ended.
What makes you say Greta was cocky? She deserves to be tortured for sailing on her own terms doing her own thing? You’re acting very cocky and I don’t appreciate your lack of respect for basic human rights.
Doing her own thing? You know she is a famous activist right? She went on that boat knowing what would happen of course. This media attention is also what she wanted to happen.
This is classic victim blaming. “You knew you would get attacked, so it’s your fault, not the attacker’s fault.”
Her goal is to get food to starving people. Media attention furthers that goal, even if they don’t succeed directly in delivering food.
I agree with that, she is trying to do good here. I dont think im victim blaming since I dont see an activist provocing Israeli soldiers as being a victim. She is trying to achieve her goals.
Why do you think she provoked the Israeli soldiers? She might not have done. The Israelis might just be treating her badly because they don’t like her.
I was asking if its possible she did, and it would make sense if she did, given her personality and her gain from media publicity to reach her goals.
I guess we don’t know for sure what has happened. I’m not sure I believe the Israeli government these days though, given that they deny the assessment of experts that people are starving in Gaza:
They are absolutely insane and have stopped seeing Gaza people as people. This is the kind of personality that leads to Stalin and Hitler.
Yeah, I mean you never explicitly stated it wasn’t the fault of the Israeli’s here. But I think that is still implied by what you said, and that’s why people are raging against you.
There’s a nuanced issue here about fault and responsibility, I think. The Israelis are absolutely at fault for any mistreatment of Greta (or any prisoner), and the Israelis are responsible for their actions, but Greta is also responsible for putting herself in harm’s way. However, Greta isn’t necessarily at fault for doing so, and furthermore her responsibility for her own actions must in no way detract from the responsibility nor fault by the Israeli forces.
Responsibility isn’t portioned out in percentages. Someone can be 100% responsible for something, but someone else can also have some responsibility. However, fault is portioned out, and a victim is in no way at fault for the fault of their attacker.
But your original point was that Greta “provoked” the Israelis. This is you implying fault. And I don’t think you can reasonably justify this assumption.
I was asking if its possible she did, and it would make sense if she did, given her personality and her gain from media publicity to reach her goals.
Well what do you mean by provocation? Because I can’t imagine her doing anything that would actually warrant the responses alleged.
Nobody likes being disrespected, who cares if you’re an “American police officer”. They are not special.
So you’re saying nobody can disrespect an American police officer or have their own opinion? If an American police officer gets their feelings hurt, you’re saying it’s okay to imprison and torture anyone who disrespects them? Hope you never disagree with a police officer and are imprisoned and tortured.
Honestly, your opinions are useless drivel. You aren’t famous anyway. What makes you think your opinions aren’t going to get you killed?
Of course im not saying its ok, but clearly its asking for problems if you do that. In this case, greta was asking for trouble because its her strategy to win minds and hearts by getting publicity like this. She knew you guys wouldnt ask what she was doing and you would only focus on the Israeli response to what she was doing. :)
Anyway, I guess you dont see any strategy here and just a innocent women being abused… :)
Obviously there is a strategy here.
Israel wants to starve people to death and have everyone else just let it happen.
Greta wants to feed those people and get some news time so others might join in and help.
Israel detained her and are now imprisoning and committing light sexual assault against her.
You also have a motive. You want to protect Israel and question Greta’s motives. You are effectively a Zionist with the way you are questioning this. Should other people also be tortured if they try to help those who are starving to death because they deserve it?
You are effectively an Israeli asset. You are supporting the genocide by questioning any opposition to it. There is very little we can do to oppose this and you’re helping it. Stop it now.
This type of conceded, complaisant attitude is why everything is as bad as it is. How about instead of being a keyboard warrior you make yourself useful? Maybe it’s people like you who don’t deserve this privilege of victim blaming for staying away from anything scary or worth fighting for. The fact you put a smiley face after the phrase “innocent woman being abused” would make anyone who is not a psychopath sick.
The smiley was because you guys dont seem to realize all of this is her strategy, so its funny how you all act like an innocent women is being abused, when that is not what is happening here.
Holy shit, having a strategy and using it is inherently bad? Israel has way more “strategy” and they’re getting their way with it. Clearly this isn’t about her using “her strategy” and you have a problem with what she’s trying to accomplish.
You want to murderer children. You want innocent people to suffer. You are such a degenerate. I hope people treat you the same way when you suffer.
Fuck you are sick.
It does not matter if she goated them or not. There is no situation where the things they are doing are justified.
There is nothing she could have done that would require them to act like they did.
Give me one example what she could have done where beating her up and forcing her to kiss a flag would apropiate responce.
Of course they were expecting problems, as they tried to get to Gaza before, so they knew that they could expect Israeli interference. But the way the Israeli authorities are dealing with this is out of proportion. Like Chaotic Altruist was saying, trying to do a morally right thing and sail to Gaza to bring survival goods, should never result in violence and humiliation.
Of course it shouldnt, but we live in a world where it absolute will give problems. We didnt wake up yesterday and now we are completely surprised the world is what it is today.
She is not the first to be treated badly so shut the f up with your dumb apologia
Imagine if somebody would kick your ass because you write stupid opinions online and then some asshole would say you are responsible for your ass whoopping.
I think the example with the police officer made a lot more sense, since one side being an authority is the point here.
So we’re doing appeals to authority argument now?
There it is.
The dumbest possible take.
So speculation, victim blaming and general lack of humanity. Yours is an opinion i should listen to and live by…
This is a good example of Gramsci’s concept of hegemony. Americans no longer question whether arbitrariness and violence by authority are acceptable. They are so used to it that they perceive it as natural and normal and even defend it.
In a democracy, however, this is absolutely unacceptable. The police are not allowed to mistreat anyone or use unnecessary force. Under no circumstances. No matter how the person behaves. They have no more rights than anyone else. Authority is not a deity. Stop acting like it is.
100% agree thats how it should be.
Someone check this duke’s hardrive
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