since saturated fats come with other problems themselves.
I would love to know what those problems are, from my reading of the literature the vilification of saturated fat was misattributed (i.e. the damage sugar and carbs caused got blamed on saturated fats in the lipid heart hypothesis)
new research and guidelines. To that end, I’d recommend checking out if that is indeed true, and if the new recommendations/consensus would make my point moot.
As far as I’m aware, fiber is a critical component of our gut health but also immune system robustness.
From my reading we don’t know much about the gut and fiber, we are just at the beginning of our understanding. So there are lots of assumptions that may not apply. For instance, and most relevant to the couple eating a animal based diet for seizures, fiber is not necessary for gut health - right now most papers assume a diversity of biotics in the gut are the most healthy… and the assumption is that fibre increases this diversity… which is true in a carbohydrate eating population. But in people only eating animal based foods we have case studies showing a very diverse gut… given the state of literature the assumption that fibre is essential hasn’t been demonstrated, especially in a ketogenic metabolism. One of the major benefits of fibre in a carbohydrate rich gut is providing BHB locally to the gut lining, which has major benefits, but in a ketogenic metabolism BHB is being generated constantly in the liver and gets all over the body including the gut (and also the brain).
I was given the rough guide of overall carbs - fibers = “final” carbs ingested. Not really sure how to translate that into English but I think it’s a common rule of thumb and you get the gist. Has that changed since?
That is still true, fibre is indigestible by the human gut, its the bacteria that break some of it down into SCAs which then get absorbed. Fibre does not spike glucose, however, it does block the absorption of other healthy food you eat in the same window… Again from my reading fiber isn’t essential, especially in a ketogenic metabolism, so avoiding fiber just means the food you eat is even more nutritious
But I’ll end on this note: Whatever I or someone say here on internet, best to double-check it all with your dietitian if doing an overseen diet, and yourself from internet if you’re doing it on your own.
Completely agreed, really good advice. Monitoring personal health metrics is also helpful, especially lipids, ketones, glucose, fasting insulin, etc…
Nutrition and health are no small things to play with. Our body is flexible and can survive a whole lot, in a lot of different situations, but there are prerequisites for it to thrive in a sustainable way. And there’s a fundamental distinction between just surviving/existing and thriving/being healthy.
Really appreciate the comment, thank you. Since I’ve had some education via my dietician and personal progress/experience, I’ve wanted to give my thoughts in case it helps. But here it seems you are much better up to date with these, and I’ve also got new perspective and reading from this. So thanks, again, especially for challenging my suggestions when it’s often risky here in internet as you’d often get negative pushback and most wouldn’t bother to subject themselves to that.
Monitoring personal health metrics is also helpful, especially lipids, ketones, glucose, fasting insulin, etc…
For whoever might be wondering about all this, I believe a lot of these can be tested from blood alone, which means it’s fairly fast and cheap. At least here, but here we have the benefit of a socialist democracy and its welfare system, I.e healthcare is essentially free. So especially if the latter applies to you too, you will not do any harm checking up on your levels from time to time!
For me, just a completely unrelated blood draw revealed problems with my blood glucose before it ever got to diabetes, and also revealed some (luckily minor) damage to my liver due to fatty liver. Which meant I was able, just by accidentally doing blood tests for something else, avoid these things getting worse and irreparable, and as it happens, ketogenic diet is very good for the latter (fatty liver, perhaps inner fat in general I think?), and fortunately in my case, it didn’t worsen the former either, so I managed to avoid the need for potentially expensive meds just by doing some diet education and changes, it was monitored full keto in the short term and later I was advised to return to more normal diet but with strictly reduced carbs so as to not let the problems resurface.
Just all to illustrate how just simple and quick tests like this can be accidentally good. I didn’t display any problems outwards, so I had no idea I was slowly sliding towards pre-diabetes and liver cirrchosis (really not sure how to spell that in English but I hope the word is similar and close enough).
And when doing any bigger diet changes, it’ll be good to have a baseline from before it, to compare against at different points of the diet.
So thanks, again, especially for challenging my suggestions when it’s often risky here in internet as you’d often get negative pushback and most wouldn’t bother to subject themselves to that.
The greatest joy I’ve found on lemmy is collaborative constructive discussions where people don’t agree, but are open to other people’s ideas. Thank you for being a thoughtful person.
just a completely unrelated blood draw revealed problems with my blood glucose before it ever got to diabetes, and also revealed some (luckily minor) damage to my liver due to fatty liver.
If you haven’t heard of the TG/HDL ratio as a marker for insulin resistance, its a fascinating area of research. It’s on all lipid panels and can tell people about creeping insulin problems (i.e. CVD risk, FLD risk) - https://hackertalks.com/post/5922188
ketogenic diet is very good for the latter (fatty liver, perhaps inner fat in general I think?)
Yes, all visceral, inter organ fat, inter muscular fat - resolve quickly on a ketogenic metabolism.
I was advised to return to more normal diet but with strictly reduced carbs so as to not let the problems resurface.
I’m not aware of any dangers of staying keto full time, so I don’t think the return to a carb based metabolism is necessary (but if that is what people find more sustainable, more power to them)
And when doing any bigger diet changes, it’ll be good to have a baseline from before it, to compare against at different points of the diet.
I would love to know what those problems are, from my reading of the literature the vilification of saturated fat was misattributed (i.e. the damage sugar and carbs caused got blamed on saturated fats in the lipid heart hypothesis)
There isn’t much consensus, but the tide is turning - https://hackertalks.com/post/17259951
From my reading we don’t know much about the gut and fiber, we are just at the beginning of our understanding. So there are lots of assumptions that may not apply. For instance, and most relevant to the couple eating a animal based diet for seizures, fiber is not necessary for gut health - right now most papers assume a diversity of biotics in the gut are the most healthy… and the assumption is that fibre increases this diversity… which is true in a carbohydrate eating population. But in people only eating animal based foods we have case studies showing a very diverse gut… given the state of literature the assumption that fibre is essential hasn’t been demonstrated, especially in a ketogenic metabolism. One of the major benefits of fibre in a carbohydrate rich gut is providing BHB locally to the gut lining, which has major benefits, but in a ketogenic metabolism BHB is being generated constantly in the liver and gets all over the body including the gut (and also the brain).
That is still true, fibre is indigestible by the human gut, its the bacteria that break some of it down into SCAs which then get absorbed. Fibre does not spike glucose, however, it does block the absorption of other healthy food you eat in the same window… Again from my reading fiber isn’t essential, especially in a ketogenic metabolism, so avoiding fiber just means the food you eat is even more nutritious
Completely agreed, really good advice. Monitoring personal health metrics is also helpful, especially lipids, ketones, glucose, fasting insulin, etc…
I couldn’t agree more, well said.
Really appreciate the comment, thank you. Since I’ve had some education via my dietician and personal progress/experience, I’ve wanted to give my thoughts in case it helps. But here it seems you are much better up to date with these, and I’ve also got new perspective and reading from this. So thanks, again, especially for challenging my suggestions when it’s often risky here in internet as you’d often get negative pushback and most wouldn’t bother to subject themselves to that.
For whoever might be wondering about all this, I believe a lot of these can be tested from blood alone, which means it’s fairly fast and cheap. At least here, but here we have the benefit of a socialist democracy and its welfare system, I.e healthcare is essentially free. So especially if the latter applies to you too, you will not do any harm checking up on your levels from time to time!
For me, just a completely unrelated blood draw revealed problems with my blood glucose before it ever got to diabetes, and also revealed some (luckily minor) damage to my liver due to fatty liver. Which meant I was able, just by accidentally doing blood tests for something else, avoid these things getting worse and irreparable, and as it happens, ketogenic diet is very good for the latter (fatty liver, perhaps inner fat in general I think?), and fortunately in my case, it didn’t worsen the former either, so I managed to avoid the need for potentially expensive meds just by doing some diet education and changes, it was monitored full keto in the short term and later I was advised to return to more normal diet but with strictly reduced carbs so as to not let the problems resurface.
Just all to illustrate how just simple and quick tests like this can be accidentally good. I didn’t display any problems outwards, so I had no idea I was slowly sliding towards pre-diabetes and liver cirrchosis (really not sure how to spell that in English but I hope the word is similar and close enough).
And when doing any bigger diet changes, it’ll be good to have a baseline from before it, to compare against at different points of the diet.
The greatest joy I’ve found on lemmy is collaborative constructive discussions where people don’t agree, but are open to other people’s ideas. Thank you for being a thoughtful person.
If you haven’t heard of the TG/HDL ratio as a marker for insulin resistance, its a fascinating area of research. It’s on all lipid panels and can tell people about creeping insulin problems (i.e. CVD risk, FLD risk) - https://hackertalks.com/post/5922188
Yes, all visceral, inter organ fat, inter muscular fat - resolve quickly on a ketogenic metabolism.
I’m not aware of any dangers of staying keto full time, so I don’t think the return to a carb based metabolism is necessary (but if that is what people find more sustainable, more power to them)
100%