It’s different from prior vaccines. So much so that they changed the definition for vaccine so the new one would fit it.
No, the definition of vaccine has not changed. I’m assuming you’re attempting to quote this article, but through the lens of Fox News propaganda: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8656271/ If you read the publication (I know, that’ll be difficult for you), it clearly states that there was a prior need that was made apparent to ensure that various groups in the scientific community, as well as laypeople, to have a consistent definition of various terms. However, “Vaccine” as defined, has always meant using methods to train the body how to respond to infection without causing infection.
It’s being pushed by untrustworthy entities.
Source?
It’s got serious side-effects.
What’s “It’s”? I’m assuming you’re talking about Hydroxychlorine? That definitely has serious side effects. If you’re talking about the covid vaccines?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X24001270 All but a few observed side effects were above the baseline expected conditions for a given population. The one you’re probably thinking of is myocarditis, because it was one that was higher than expected. It’s “serious”, but not necessarily life threatening. Also, it’s at a rate of about 3 people per 100,000, and unvaccinated people who caught covid were 5x more likely to experience it compared to vaccinated in any condition.
It is being pushed by the biggest propaganda campaign I ever saw. It really is impressive, and scary, to see the media and the public so in-synch.
I can tell a lot of effort went into this but the person you are talking to clearly has no ability to recognize empirical evidence. They are utterly guided by their own uneducated feelings and nothing will convince them otherwise. I applaud you on your efforts though. Lot of good information here.
I don’t disagree, they’re an incredibly propagandized individual, but engaging in discussions like that gives me practice for engaging in discussions with similarly propagandized people I know IRL. It’s helped me convert at least one person from an anti-vax conservative into a moderate at least leftist.
I’m too autistic to engage in these discussions with people because I cannot comprehend how they can just completely ignore irrefutable data just because they don’t feel that it is correct. It utterly baffled me that people can be so controlled by their emotions to the point of just straight up rejecting reality.
Like, I get it. I understand it on a psychological level and how they are just victims of their own innate human psychology but I for the life of me cannot have a discussion with these people about it because they just do not listen nor care about facts and I have no patience to dance around it for the sake of protecting their fragile egos.
I’ve given up. I don’t have it in me anymore to keep trying. Never was able to get anyone back to reality after they went deep into it. Friends and family. It’s a terrible damn problem. Basically a big chunk of society needs to be deprogrammed and I haven’t seen anything that will do the trick.
Not that I’m in any way disparaging your efforts. Good luck and god speed. Maybe you’ll find some sort of magic that will flip the switch. You’d be a motherfucking hero, no irony.
Yes, you know the truth. And everybody around you knows the truth. And all of the right authorities agree with you. And this is all completely logical, obvious, right and scientific. And anybody who thinks otherwise is wrong, bad and insane.
There aren’t “reasons” people are afraid of vaccines. The irrational fear comes first, and then people go looking for rationalizations like yours to explain the feelings they already have.
I have over my life discovered many such ways I do that kind of thing, which leads me to believe there may still be some I am not aware of. But I think I have addressed any that I knew about.
What was your definition of vaccine? Vaccines have never 100% prevented people from contracting a virus. A virus is a living thing that once it enters your body and body has to react. If your body doesn’t recognize it is bad, it may ignore it and allow it to replicate and spread without any resistance. If your body knows it is bad, it starts to put up a resistance and fight it soon as it sees it. Both bodies “contracted the virus” but the one who got a vaccine knows when it sees it to start working against it sooner; hopefully preventing it from spreading to much or causing any serious symptoms.
I like to think of it like making the opposition wear a red shirt. When you see a red shirt, you know it’s an invader, without the vaccine, you don’t know what to look for, so you let the red shirt population grow and spread until you notice that the red shirts are causing problems, then you recognize them as an invader, but they are spread throughout the body and ingrained into the population. A lot more opposition… Thus the battle isn’t as quickly won, or if unlucky, the damages get to severe before being able to clear out all the invaders, and you die.
Super serious side effects which is why it was safely administered to 70% of the globe. Side effects so serious you don’t know a single person with a verifiable case! That fear mongering worked before billions of people received the vaccine 5 years ago. Someone update your bot.
Without context, I’m going to guess you mean the Covid vaccine.
It’s different from prior vaccines.
If you’re taking about the mRNA vaccines, then you are partially right, but there is a non-mRNA option you can get in the US.
So much so that they changed the definition for vaccine so the new one would fit it.
Source? I’m also curious to get your definition of what a vaccine is.
It’s being pushed by untrustworthy entities.
It’s also being “pushed” by multiple world-class regulatory organizations with millions of hours of experience in testing the efficacy and safety of all kinds of medicine.
It’s got serious side-effects.
Any and every kind of medical procedure can have serious side effects. Clearly you’ve never read the waiver and info page for any vaccine you’ve received. There is a mile of potential issues, along with a guide on what to do if you experience certain symptoms, and resources for you to reachout to if you believe you are having an adverse reaction to your shot. Vaccines are considered based on the chance that you will have an adverse reaction, and the severity of that reaction, and ultimately the mRNA vaccines do not rise above the risk threshold for other “conventional” vaccines.
It is being pushed by the biggest propaganda campaign I ever saw. It really is impressive, and scary, to see the media and the public so in-synch.
This is a wakeup call to let you know that you’re an oppositional defiant luddite who has been scared by reknowned liars and conspiracy theorists. Also, you should listen to your wife more, she’s right most of the time.
I’m too lazy to provide sources at the moment. Maybe peruse this thread.
I think that you are a true believer in the midst of a society filled with true believers. As incapable of controlling the vector of your thoughts as a pebble embedded in a glacier. As certain of the truth as a medieval zealot. If the tv told you to cut off your feet you’d do it today and chuckle at what fools those other guys are. No thanks.
You’d be the first to describe me as a “true believer”. I’m about as skeptical as it gets, but being skeptical does not mean “disagree with everything on principle” it means “everything needs to have a standard of evidence” and right now, claiming that mRNA vaccines are dangerous and ineffective does not have a peer reviewed consensus amongst medical experts. In lieu of having my own lab, and the time and funding to run my own study and get it peer reviewed (something I have neither the funds, time, nor expertise to do) I must rely on experts in the subject who are respected in their relevant fields.
You write like a seminary school dropout with a 3rd grade understanding of biology fishing for a fox news daytime correspondent position.
You could trust the evidence of your own senses
Very funny you mention that, because your own senses aren’t worth diddly-squat in the scientific world. It’s what you would call “anecdotal evidence”… Barely better than a secondhand recounting of a Facebook post. It’s especially funny to put human senses on a pedestal when communicating to someone who wears corrective lenses. Do you even know what your senses are? It’s mostly chemical/electrical impulses made by bits of meat, sent along bundles of meat to a meat-based signal processor, which interperts those signals and makes it available to other parts of your meatiness to react to. I don’t trust my senses, because what I have to sense with is made to see food, hear predators, and smell mates. My senses are wholly insufficient to see individual cells, let alone the proteins that make them up, and the nucleic acids that code for those proteins. My fingers lack the precision to detect the shape and size of a virus. You can’t rely on your eyes for that you need a microscope. You can’t measure tiny distance by touch, you need a micrometer. I don’t trust my senses, but I have confidence in the steel, glass and repeatable precision of a machine.
…wait till you’re actually sick before reaching for the medicine.
Seems like you are the kind of person who waits for a car crash before reaching for their seatbelt. Frankly, the world’s is better off it this is true.
It really is funny, because there is no shortage of optical and auditory illusions. Hundreds of thousands of people claim to have seen ghosts, or flying saucers, or bigfoot, but none of those things has been confirmed to exist. Your senses do lie to you, and they lie a lot. Pilots are trained to rely on their instruments when flying, because your inner ear evolved to keep you upright when walking and running, and not to tell you which way is up in a tumbling aircraft. Your eyes evolved to spot food and predators, but even our advanced human eyes fail to discern the ocean from the sky, and no small number of experienced pilots have crashed because they didn’t trust the artificial horizon in their airplane.
4 reasons to fear the present vaccine.
It’s different from prior vaccines. So much so that they changed the definition for vaccine so the new one would fit it.
It’s being pushed by untrustworthy entities.
It’s got serious side-effects.
It is being pushed by the biggest propaganda campaign I ever saw. It really is impressive, and scary, to see the media and the public so in-synch.
No, the definition of vaccine has not changed. I’m assuming you’re attempting to quote this article, but through the lens of Fox News propaganda: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8656271/ If you read the publication (I know, that’ll be difficult for you), it clearly states that there was a prior need that was made apparent to ensure that various groups in the scientific community, as well as laypeople, to have a consistent definition of various terms. However, “Vaccine” as defined, has always meant using methods to train the body how to respond to infection without causing infection.
Source?
What’s “It’s”? I’m assuming you’re talking about Hydroxychlorine? That definitely has serious side effects. If you’re talking about the covid vaccines?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X24001270 All but a few observed side effects were above the baseline expected conditions for a given population. The one you’re probably thinking of is myocarditis, because it was one that was higher than expected. It’s “serious”, but not necessarily life threatening. Also, it’s at a rate of about 3 people per 100,000, and unvaccinated people who caught covid were 5x more likely to experience it compared to vaccinated in any condition.
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-health-pseudoscience/anti-vaccine-propaganda-robert-f-kennedy-jr
https://www.tamug.edu/nautilus/articles/v32-i2-AntiVaxx.html
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-pentagons-antivaccine-propaganda-endangered-public-health-and-tarnished/
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes
https://wiisglobal.org/the-politics-of-fear-right-wing-anti-gender-and-anti-vaccination-narratives/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-vaccine_activism
Sure thing, champ
I can tell a lot of effort went into this but the person you are talking to clearly has no ability to recognize empirical evidence. They are utterly guided by their own uneducated feelings and nothing will convince them otherwise. I applaud you on your efforts though. Lot of good information here.
I don’t disagree, they’re an incredibly propagandized individual, but engaging in discussions like that gives me practice for engaging in discussions with similarly propagandized people I know IRL. It’s helped me convert at least one person from an anti-vax conservative into a moderate at least leftist.
I’m too autistic to engage in these discussions with people because I cannot comprehend how they can just completely ignore irrefutable data just because they don’t feel that it is correct. It utterly baffled me that people can be so controlled by their emotions to the point of just straight up rejecting reality.
Like, I get it. I understand it on a psychological level and how they are just victims of their own innate human psychology but I for the life of me cannot have a discussion with these people about it because they just do not listen nor care about facts and I have no patience to dance around it for the sake of protecting their fragile egos.
I’m essentially a modern day Ignaz Sammelweis.
Everyone does this. YOU do this. It would behoove you to develop compassion to cope with impatience, autism doesn’t prevent it.
Not who you were responding to.
I’ve given up. I don’t have it in me anymore to keep trying. Never was able to get anyone back to reality after they went deep into it. Friends and family. It’s a terrible damn problem. Basically a big chunk of society needs to be deprogrammed and I haven’t seen anything that will do the trick.
Not that I’m in any way disparaging your efforts. Good luck and god speed. Maybe you’ll find some sort of magic that will flip the switch. You’d be a motherfucking hero, no irony.
Yes, you know the truth. And everybody around you knows the truth. And all of the right authorities agree with you. And this is all completely logical, obvious, right and scientific. And anybody who thinks otherwise is wrong, bad and insane.
It’s an old story.
Gods, you’re boring. Piss off with your utterly fallacious arguments.
Actually, they changed the definition to remove the “made from weakened organisms” part. To allow this other kind of “vaccine”.
Now take a breath.
Breathing just fine, thank you. I’ve been vaccinated
There aren’t “reasons” people are afraid of vaccines. The irrational fear comes first, and then people go looking for rationalizations like yours to explain the feelings they already have.
I like to think that I’m better than that of course. And no doubt it works both ways.
Lord, it’s so obvious. You wouldn’t find that bullshit persuasive if you didn’t already want to be persuaded.
How about you, do you think that you’re suffering from the influence?
How about you? Do you think you’re suffering from idiocy?
good talk
I have over my life discovered many such ways I do that kind of thing, which leads me to believe there may still be some I am not aware of. But I think I have addressed any that I knew about.
What was your definition of vaccine? Vaccines have never 100% prevented people from contracting a virus. A virus is a living thing that once it enters your body and body has to react. If your body doesn’t recognize it is bad, it may ignore it and allow it to replicate and spread without any resistance. If your body knows it is bad, it starts to put up a resistance and fight it soon as it sees it. Both bodies “contracted the virus” but the one who got a vaccine knows when it sees it to start working against it sooner; hopefully preventing it from spreading to much or causing any serious symptoms.
I like to think of it like making the opposition wear a red shirt. When you see a red shirt, you know it’s an invader, without the vaccine, you don’t know what to look for, so you let the red shirt population grow and spread until you notice that the red shirts are causing problems, then you recognize them as an invader, but they are spread throughout the body and ingrained into the population. A lot more opposition… Thus the battle isn’t as quickly won, or if unlucky, the damages get to severe before being able to clear out all the invaders, and you die.
Super serious side effects which is why it was safely administered to 70% of the globe. Side effects so serious you don’t know a single person with a verifiable case! That fear mongering worked before billions of people received the vaccine 5 years ago. Someone update your bot.
I’ve heard of lots of side effects actually.
Yea my dick’s bigger and im 4" taller. According to me and many sources on Facebook, corroborated by ur mom.
Little late to the party, but I’ll jump in.
Without context, I’m going to guess you mean the Covid vaccine.
If you’re taking about the mRNA vaccines, then you are partially right, but there is a non-mRNA option you can get in the US.
Source? I’m also curious to get your definition of what a vaccine is.
It’s also being “pushed” by multiple world-class regulatory organizations with millions of hours of experience in testing the efficacy and safety of all kinds of medicine.
Any and every kind of medical procedure can have serious side effects. Clearly you’ve never read the waiver and info page for any vaccine you’ve received. There is a mile of potential issues, along with a guide on what to do if you experience certain symptoms, and resources for you to reachout to if you believe you are having an adverse reaction to your shot. Vaccines are considered based on the chance that you will have an adverse reaction, and the severity of that reaction, and ultimately the mRNA vaccines do not rise above the risk threshold for other “conventional” vaccines.
This is a wakeup call to let you know that you’re an oppositional defiant luddite who has been scared by reknowned liars and conspiracy theorists. Also, you should listen to your wife more, she’s right most of the time.
I’m too lazy to provide sources at the moment. Maybe peruse this thread.
I think that you are a true believer in the midst of a society filled with true believers. As incapable of controlling the vector of your thoughts as a pebble embedded in a glacier. As certain of the truth as a medieval zealot. If the tv told you to cut off your feet you’d do it today and chuckle at what fools those other guys are. No thanks.
You’d be the first to describe me as a “true believer”. I’m about as skeptical as it gets, but being skeptical does not mean “disagree with everything on principle” it means “everything needs to have a standard of evidence” and right now, claiming that mRNA vaccines are dangerous and ineffective does not have a peer reviewed consensus amongst medical experts. In lieu of having my own lab, and the time and funding to run my own study and get it peer reviewed (something I have neither the funds, time, nor expertise to do) I must rely on experts in the subject who are respected in their relevant fields.
You could trust the evidence of your own senses and wait till you’re actually sick before reaching for the medicine.
You write like a seminary school dropout with a 3rd grade understanding of biology fishing for a fox news daytime correspondent position.
Very funny you mention that, because your own senses aren’t worth diddly-squat in the scientific world. It’s what you would call “anecdotal evidence”… Barely better than a secondhand recounting of a Facebook post. It’s especially funny to put human senses on a pedestal when communicating to someone who wears corrective lenses. Do you even know what your senses are? It’s mostly chemical/electrical impulses made by bits of meat, sent along bundles of meat to a meat-based signal processor, which interperts those signals and makes it available to other parts of your meatiness to react to. I don’t trust my senses, because what I have to sense with is made to see food, hear predators, and smell mates. My senses are wholly insufficient to see individual cells, let alone the proteins that make them up, and the nucleic acids that code for those proteins. My fingers lack the precision to detect the shape and size of a virus. You can’t rely on your eyes for that you need a microscope. You can’t measure tiny distance by touch, you need a micrometer. I don’t trust my senses, but I have confidence in the steel, glass and repeatable precision of a machine.
Seems like you are the kind of person who waits for a car crash before reaching for their seatbelt. Frankly, the world’s is better off it this is true.
It really is funny, because there is no shortage of optical and auditory illusions. Hundreds of thousands of people claim to have seen ghosts, or flying saucers, or bigfoot, but none of those things has been confirmed to exist. Your senses do lie to you, and they lie a lot. Pilots are trained to rely on their instruments when flying, because your inner ear evolved to keep you upright when walking and running, and not to tell you which way is up in a tumbling aircraft. Your eyes evolved to spot food and predators, but even our advanced human eyes fail to discern the ocean from the sky, and no small number of experienced pilots have crashed because they didn’t trust the artificial horizon in their airplane.
You stand proudly as an example for us all.
The projection is herculean.
No u
Youre right, and being down voted by people who have no concept of non black and white thinking.
People are right to be non trusting of a brand new untested vaccine.
See, you’re using a very selective definition of “untested”. Obviously it has been tested. You just don’t accept those tests.
Tested and verified by who?
Cant trust anything.
Good morning.
You ever see that old scifi movie, “The Omega Man”? It’s kinda like that.