I’m so glad I have Americans around to lecture me daily on the morality of pop culture whilst they simultaneously accelerate extinction-level events and start new wars that fuck the cost of living for the rest of us.
Of course we know that, but from the outside in, it’s a bit odd how those two coincide. Just a few moments ago, I was talking about rising prices for everything because of the war, only to open to Lemmy to find this article and that comment. I hadn’t thought about it, but holy fuck, America.
Considering it’s a democratic nation, yes they’re all responsible. Trump is not some flash-in-the-pan anomaly, he is a direct result of a long-term history and culture that all Americans have been participants in.
They appear to have it together unless you’re suggesting they’re obligated to ineffectually martyr themselves for an apathetic population who won’t help them. No need to antagonize the minority of good Americans.
Everyone sucks off Luigi but at the end of the day, everyone there will let the system mulch him.
You act tough. As a spectator, egging people on but staying out of the line of fire yourself. Armchair Rambo. But if it’s your actual life on the line? Hmm, doubt you’d do what you preach if you were in their shoes.
They appear to have it together unless you’re suggesting they’re obligated to ineffectually martyr themselves for an apathetic population who won’t help them.
This is what Americans have bragged about for years, though. The greatest and most free country in the world that could never possibly fall to a dictatorship because the people were armed and would rise up in rebellion. They loved to talk about their violent civil war past, as if some of that bravado still existed inside them. They loved to denigrate the citizens of more authoritarian states: “Why don’t they just fight back? Are they stupid or cowards?”.
Yes, if the rest of the world takes Americans at their word then we do expect them to die for the mythology of their country. It’s what they repeatedly said they’d do right up until the actual moment came, then they went quiet and either sulked or pretended they were fine with the house burning down.
As I said, this is not just about recent history. All adult Americans are culpable for letting their country get to this stage in the first place, not that you’d ever know that from the way they behave online. Still the same massive exceptionalism ego whenever they’re confronted with criticism based on reality. Still the same blame games, the same victim mentality. No accountability in sight.
Yeah but with that extreme narrative we are all culprit by association with our ancestors. Like because I’m Belgian I am guilty of fucking over a whole continent ? Dude in Iran have it coming because at some point Persia was a bit into forcible borders expansion? And Germans… all of them are in the bag as well? That’s some extremely simplistic view on a very complex world.
As much as the situation in the states is infuriating we must not generalise and antagonise the good guys over there. We kindof need them to keep steering the situation for a better turn.
Yes, all adults of a nation are responsible for cultivating the culture of that nation. As I said in another comment, Trump (and MAGA) did not magically come from nowhere. They are the result of everyone in that country celebrating ego over humility, for turning a blind eye to real problems whilst circlejerking about moral authority and greatness, for chasing division over relatively minor issues rather than finding common ground on the major ones of our time. Americans of all political leanings have been projecting their own problems for decades whilst proclaiming to have “the greatest country in the world”.
As much as the situation in the states is infuriating we must not generalise and antagonise the good guys over there. We kindof need them to keep steering the situation for a better turn.
The “good guys” aren’t steering anything. They aren’t in control and the idea that things will be fixed if they were completely misses the point here. The American left is just as guilty of self-fellation when their chosen president stands up on a podium and jerks himself off about how his people are the greatest of all.
The adults of today? Or the children of yesterday when the cards were dealt? Maybe today’s children as well since eventually they are tomorrow’s adults…
I understand the rage but this is just too simplistic a view. And it doesn’t help, it just steer some shit.
The children of today will be adults one day, at which point they will have the same adult responsibilities as any of us. You can’t hold children accountable for the failings of adults, though. You seem to be making a backwards-looking, fatalistic argument that no one should be held responsible for anything because it all stems from somewhere in the past long before they were a responsible adult. I’m saying we have a responsibility as the adults of today to acknowledge the impact of history but choose empowerment and action to change our present and future. That starts with awareness and accountability, two things that are significantly lacking in our discourse currently (particularly discourse in the US, as I have been arguing).
Yes, I understand that. It was a hyperbolic response that didn’t engage with the point I was making, so rather than be drawn into a pointless debate about it I chose to interpret it in a way that allowed for more relevant discussion.
How very American of you to use some condescending, throwaway one-liner to exit the conversation and make yourself feel better, rather than respond thoughtfully or even just move on quietly. You may not have voted for your president, but your behaviour is very reminiscent of him. Keep telling yourselves you’re winners and belittling anyone who dares to suggest otherwise.
And how very uneducated and frankly argumentative in the least impressive way, while saying so many things you feel are smart, yet actually don’t make any sense whatever. Yes I use an exit, because you are a wall of idiot and throwing myself against you is a losing battle, no matter what facts are, because these don’t matter to someone like you. I gave up on arguing with idiots like you years ago on Reddit. I’m not starting it here.
Heavily implying you’re more educated than those who disagree with you is also right out of Trump’s playbook, by the way. As I said, this is a very broad cultural issue that you guys seem to lack an awareness of and desperately resist having your attention drawn to.
I’ll take the hit on this one. It’s me. My fault. GenX, lower middle class. (Upper lower class?)
Whatever the case, I’ve been bitching about the corrupt government since I was 18. Didn’t vote until I was over 50.
In my youth, it seemed like democracy didn’t need me. The U.S. was going in a great direction. Under Clinton (1992-2000), we had a balanced budget and started to make reforms with social issues. And yes, there was back-pedaling in the Bush (2000-2008) era, but it seemed like checks and balances were at least working. When Obama (2008-2016) held office, he had us feeling like there really WAS hope and change again. It was mostly smoke and mirrors, lip service to corporations, but it didn’t feel that way. It felt like slow progress, even as the corporate oligarchs tightened the noose.
Then, in a flash, it all changed. When Trump rolled into politics, I didn’t take him seriously. Couldn’t imagine that a sane person would choose him as a leader. And he won the election.
At that point, I registered to vote. Too fucking late. And here we are. We’ll never see a fair election again. Between gerrymandering and Citizen’s United (2010), our elections were already fucked. But now Trump will openly cheat.
It’s too late. It can’t be undone now. There’s too much money flowing into their warchest. People think the U.S. is “turning” towards authoritarianism. They don’t realize that we’re already there. All the pieces have been dropped in place. Full surveillance, a corrupt system supported by limitless corporate money, a stranglehold on the world’s energy supply, and a military budget bigger than most nations’ GDP. And, of course, ICE - Trump’s personal army.
The aggressiveness towards Iran? Nothing new. A different president might have slowly escalated things, smiling and nodding at the cameras while pressuring NATO to help. I’m reminded of Bush in 2002/3, leveraging the 9/11 to attack Iraq. It was nonsense, but Bush brought everyone along with him. He built a case with junk evidence, made grand claims of Iraq’s destructive capabilities and deposed a dictator so that the oil would flow to his cronies’ bank accounts.
Trump has pulled aside the curtain and revealed the real America. That’s all. It was about oil back then, it’s about oil today. It’s always about oil.
No one cares more about virtue signalling relatively inconsequential culture war issues and less about controlling what their country actually does on a global stage than Americans. Truly the most sedated, ignorant and empathy-deficient population of our times.
I guess you haven’t worked this out yet but I don’t care about the thoughts of Americans. I care about how their obsession with those thoughts impacts their actions in the world.
You are trying to start fights where there is no reason to start one. They are literally agreeing with you here, and still you are being an asshole about it.
Who agreed with me? Every single reply has either deflected or attempted to get a cheap victory via character assassination. Pretty much the only person who engaged in good faith was the Belgian, and they also don’t wholly agree with me.
I’m so glad I have Americans around to lecture me daily on the morality of pop culture whilst they simultaneously accelerate extinction-level events and start new wars that fuck the cost of living for the rest of us.
This comment was quality bait. Perfect op for banter and the seppos still can’t.
You think those that are lecturing about the idiot raging against trans and others are the same ones that are running the country into the ground?
Of course we know that, but from the outside in, it’s a bit odd how those two coincide. Just a few moments ago, I was talking about rising prices for everything because of the war, only to open to Lemmy to find this article and that comment. I hadn’t thought about it, but holy fuck, America.
Considering it’s a democratic nation, yes they’re all responsible. Trump is not some flash-in-the-pan anomaly, he is a direct result of a long-term history and culture that all Americans have been participants in.
I, and everyone I know, have voted against him 3 times. We are a Republic, not a democracy.
You and everyone you know plus 90 million who DGAF.
Try to actually hear this: we, the rest of the world, are tired of your shit. Get it together.
They appear to have it together unless you’re suggesting they’re obligated to ineffectually martyr themselves for an apathetic population who won’t help them. No need to antagonize the minority of good Americans.
Everyone sucks off Luigi but at the end of the day, everyone there will let the system mulch him.
You act tough. As a spectator, egging people on but staying out of the line of fire yourself. Armchair Rambo. But if it’s your actual life on the line? Hmm, doubt you’d do what you preach if you were in their shoes.
This is what Americans have bragged about for years, though. The greatest and most free country in the world that could never possibly fall to a dictatorship because the people were armed and would rise up in rebellion. They loved to talk about their violent civil war past, as if some of that bravado still existed inside them. They loved to denigrate the citizens of more authoritarian states: “Why don’t they just fight back? Are they stupid or cowards?”.
Yes, if the rest of the world takes Americans at their word then we do expect them to die for the mythology of their country. It’s what they repeatedly said they’d do right up until the actual moment came, then they went quiet and either sulked or pretended they were fine with the house burning down.
You are quite a bigot arent you? You talked to a few americans and now painting a picture over 350 million people.
As if I’m not also tired of this shit.
As I said, this is not just about recent history. All adult Americans are culpable for letting their country get to this stage in the first place, not that you’d ever know that from the way they behave online. Still the same massive exceptionalism ego whenever they’re confronted with criticism based on reality. Still the same blame games, the same victim mentality. No accountability in sight.
Yeah but with that extreme narrative we are all culprit by association with our ancestors. Like because I’m Belgian I am guilty of fucking over a whole continent ? Dude in Iran have it coming because at some point Persia was a bit into forcible borders expansion? And Germans… all of them are in the bag as well? That’s some extremely simplistic view on a very complex world.
As much as the situation in the states is infuriating we must not generalise and antagonise the good guys over there. We kindof need them to keep steering the situation for a better turn.
Belgian here. You better be on the fucking street coz the government want to kick out my wife
The whole continent I do not know, but the Congo Belge? Bro you won’t get away easy with this one.
Yeah because my ancestors who were very busy dying in the mines are complicit with the management of the times. All around good times IIRC.
I’m waloon too. We are responsable. It’s our responsibility to change what we can. We’re not talking about self flagellation.
Yes, all adults of a nation are responsible for cultivating the culture of that nation. As I said in another comment, Trump (and MAGA) did not magically come from nowhere. They are the result of everyone in that country celebrating ego over humility, for turning a blind eye to real problems whilst circlejerking about moral authority and greatness, for chasing division over relatively minor issues rather than finding common ground on the major ones of our time. Americans of all political leanings have been projecting their own problems for decades whilst proclaiming to have “the greatest country in the world”.
The “good guys” aren’t steering anything. They aren’t in control and the idea that things will be fixed if they were completely misses the point here. The American left is just as guilty of self-fellation when their chosen president stands up on a podium and jerks himself off about how his people are the greatest of all.
The adults of today? Or the children of yesterday when the cards were dealt? Maybe today’s children as well since eventually they are tomorrow’s adults…
I understand the rage but this is just too simplistic a view. And it doesn’t help, it just steer some shit.
The children of today will be adults one day, at which point they will have the same adult responsibilities as any of us. You can’t hold children accountable for the failings of adults, though. You seem to be making a backwards-looking, fatalistic argument that no one should be held responsible for anything because it all stems from somewhere in the past long before they were a responsible adult. I’m saying we have a responsibility as the adults of today to acknowledge the impact of history but choose empowerment and action to change our present and future. That starts with awareness and accountability, two things that are significantly lacking in our discourse currently (particularly discourse in the US, as I have been arguing).
/u/an4g3l meant in terms of their ancestors. They’re not responsible for Belgiums occupation of Congo in the early 1900s.
Yes, I understand that. It was a hyperbolic response that didn’t engage with the point I was making, so rather than be drawn into a pointless debate about it I chose to interpret it in a way that allowed for more relevant discussion.
Ok buddy
How very American of you to use some condescending, throwaway one-liner to exit the conversation and make yourself feel better, rather than respond thoughtfully or even just move on quietly. You may not have voted for your president, but your behaviour is very reminiscent of him. Keep telling yourselves you’re winners and belittling anyone who dares to suggest otherwise.
And how very uneducated and frankly argumentative in the least impressive way, while saying so many things you feel are smart, yet actually don’t make any sense whatever. Yes I use an exit, because you are a wall of idiot and throwing myself against you is a losing battle, no matter what facts are, because these don’t matter to someone like you. I gave up on arguing with idiots like you years ago on Reddit. I’m not starting it here.
Heavily implying you’re more educated than those who disagree with you is also right out of Trump’s playbook, by the way. As I said, this is a very broad cultural issue that you guys seem to lack an awareness of and desperately resist having your attention drawn to.
And yet you say the same things MAGA idiots say:
“Gorillas aren apes, not mammals.”
I’ll take the hit on this one. It’s me. My fault. GenX, lower middle class. (Upper lower class?)
Whatever the case, I’ve been bitching about the corrupt government since I was 18. Didn’t vote until I was over 50.
In my youth, it seemed like democracy didn’t need me. The U.S. was going in a great direction. Under Clinton (1992-2000), we had a balanced budget and started to make reforms with social issues. And yes, there was back-pedaling in the Bush (2000-2008) era, but it seemed like checks and balances were at least working. When Obama (2008-2016) held office, he had us feeling like there really WAS hope and change again. It was mostly smoke and mirrors, lip service to corporations, but it didn’t feel that way. It felt like slow progress, even as the corporate oligarchs tightened the noose.
Then, in a flash, it all changed. When Trump rolled into politics, I didn’t take him seriously. Couldn’t imagine that a sane person would choose him as a leader. And he won the election.
At that point, I registered to vote. Too fucking late. And here we are. We’ll never see a fair election again. Between gerrymandering and Citizen’s United (2010), our elections were already fucked. But now Trump will openly cheat.
It’s too late. It can’t be undone now. There’s too much money flowing into their warchest. People think the U.S. is “turning” towards authoritarianism. They don’t realize that we’re already there. All the pieces have been dropped in place. Full surveillance, a corrupt system supported by limitless corporate money, a stranglehold on the world’s energy supply, and a military budget bigger than most nations’ GDP. And, of course, ICE - Trump’s personal army.
The aggressiveness towards Iran? Nothing new. A different president might have slowly escalated things, smiling and nodding at the cameras while pressuring NATO to help. I’m reminded of Bush in 2002/3, leveraging the 9/11 to attack Iraq. It was nonsense, but Bush brought everyone along with him. He built a case with junk evidence, made grand claims of Iraq’s destructive capabilities and deposed a dictator so that the oil would flow to his cronies’ bank accounts.
Trump has pulled aside the curtain and revealed the real America. That’s all. It was about oil back then, it’s about oil today. It’s always about oil.
i’m gonna muppet out on the not registered to vote until trump oh your god i’m younger than you and voted more aaaaaaa
I’m glad there’s red Herring fallacies so that people on the internet can retort without rationality.
you think this view is unique to the US?
something tells me there are intelligent and decent people in every country. and it is a worldwide franchise, hardly unique to the US.
No one cares more about virtue signalling relatively inconsequential culture war issues and less about controlling what their country actually does on a global stage than Americans. Truly the most sedated, ignorant and empathy-deficient population of our times.
then keep on reading the terf bitch’s garbage. and know people will judge you for your awful tastes.
I guess you haven’t worked this out yet but I don’t care about the thoughts of Americans. I care about how their obsession with those thoughts impacts their actions in the world.
your nationality does not excuse supporting a hag.
why would it? pfft
You are trying to start fights where there is no reason to start one. They are literally agreeing with you here, and still you are being an asshole about it.
Who agreed with me? Every single reply has either deflected or attempted to get a cheap victory via character assassination. Pretty much the only person who engaged in good faith was the Belgian, and they also don’t wholly agree with me.
Choosing a globally federated network of social media wasn’t the play then was it chief?
On the contrary, choosing federated social media developed in opposition to US big tech is exactly the right play.