*In terms of privacy, customisation, camera quality, and battery time.
For the longest time I have only used either iPhone or Samsung. I plan on switching to Android for the next phone I get, but I find that Samsung phones are often too big for me and put too much energy on camera quality (I don’t take many photos). I have started to look into brands such as Nokia and Motorola, and I would like to know what you guys think of them. Additionally, do you suggest any other phone brands aside from them? My biggest priorities are privacy and long battery time. Bonus if the phone can run LineageOS (I have excluded Graphene as they are only compatible with Pixel phones).
Thank you for any answers. Cheers!
I don’t get people claiming stock iPhone is private. We literally have very little idea. It’s a closed system. It’s private if you take Apple’s word but all the other manufacturers also have similar claims. Why trust Apple and not them?
On top of that you end up locked into their ecosystem, unable to use most FOSS applications or have cut down versions of them because daddy Apple didn’t like some features.
A friend told me there’s no point in stealing them as it’s impossible to unlock or wipe them, which would give them the edge at least in that respect. Is this accurate?
Yes iPhones are secure but not private. The two are related but different concepts. I’m not sure what exactly your friend is referring to though.
He’s referring to how, if you are signed into an Apple ID and have a passcode, there really is no way to use the phone if you steal it (to my knowledge). The device is a complete brick if you don’t have the Apple ID credentials.
This is accurate, it is also accurate for (at least some part of) android though… Going into recovery boot requires the phone pin for my mid-range phone. Hell even turning off the phone can be set to require pin or biometric.
The turning off part is completely stupid though, nearly every phone has a button combo to hard power off (usually power + either vol up or vol down).
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The irony of using Android is that if you want privacy and security you’ll have to buy a Pixel phone. Everything else is either less secure or harder to install alternative systems.
I don’t recall it was hard to install IodéOS on a Fairphone 4.
It isn’t, but it isn’t also secure. Your bootloader is easily compromised and people can get to your data in no time.
True, since Fairphone’s focus seems to be on fairness in the hardware. I wish they were better on the software side as well.
I think if Fairphones get GrapheneOS support, it would be a no brainer for many. A phone you can repair yourself, which is fairly produced, with the safety and the absence of Google from GrapheneOS would be a good combo
I think if Fairphones get GrapheneOS support…
Then Fairphone needs to up their hardware security and software support. GrapheneOS has minimum requirements that vendors must meet for GrapheneOS to support them, and Fairphone doesn’t measure up. Only Pixels do, at the moment.
Me too.
Fairphone should also work on the fairness side of things, because they dropped the headphone jack and, with a heavy heart I’m sure, started selling unfair Lithium Earbuds…
Their reasoning was, in part, people who bought their modular repairable phone said it was too big.
In that case, would you not recommend Motorola? I’m not very well versed on their terms of privacy, and I really like the way they look and how seemingly good the battery is, but if it’s considered unsafe or full of malware then I might need to look other ways.
The problem is that GrapheneOS really, truly, actually is the only way to get even reasonable levels of privacy on a mobile device right now.
That sounds so much like a shill statement, and it seems that way from others too I’m sure. But its true. If you understand anything at all that happens under the hood of an operating system and android in general, GrapheneOS is the ONLY option for actual privacy and security. And the unfortunate part, is that only Pixels are supported by this.
I will read more into this, but it sounds reasonable. If I were to get a Pixel, is there any particular model I should get or does it not matter? Does Graphene support all models?
Read this: https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support
Unlike others, Graphene has very strict requirements when it comes to devices to ensure you’re safe.
As usual if you’re looking to have any security (Verified boot) GrapheneOS + Pixel phone is the only options. I really don’t get it how come people in places like this are okay with having a phone with all their personal data and logins without verified boot. Stolen / lost phone and game over.
Calyx, for instance, isn’t as good as GrapheneOS, they do a lot of snitching on you (including to Google and Mozilla) and they overlook critical details such as this one allowing the OS to contact 3rd parties such as Qualcomm.
Other phone brands, let’s say Fairphone just don’t make thing right. Fairphone guys have been petitioned multiples times to open their platform and/or collaborate with projects such as GrapheneOS and CalyxOS so user can have private and secure phones but they don’t care.
CalyxOS does support the Fairphone 4 however that’s only due to the persistence and reverse engineering efforts of the CalyxOS project / community. If you decide to use it you won’t have a secure bootloader anymore due to a bug in Fairphone’s firmware that they choose not to fix. That’s how “fair” the “Fairphone” really is.
Here is more relevant information for you from here:
XTRA is technology offered by Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. in the US and QT Technologies Ireland Limited in the European Economic Area to improve mobile device performance. XTRA downloads a data file from Qualcomm containing the predicted orbits of the Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) satellites. Using the XTRA data file reduces the time the device needs to calculate its location, thus saving time and battery power when using location-based applications. Newer versions of the XTRA software also upload a small amount of data to us. We use the uploaded data for purposes described in this Policy, such as maintaining and improving the quality, security, and integrity of the service. XTRA uploads the following data types: a randomly generated unique ID, the chipset name and serial number, XTRA software version, the mobile country code and network code (allowing identification of country and wireless operator), the type of operating system and version, device make and model, the time since the last boot of the application processor and modem, and a list of our software on the device
Before you say this is the CPU’s fault, it isn’t, at least on its own. GrapheneOS also deals with this kind of stuff and has patches and options so you can block it.
Calyx does a lot of snitching on you
That is certainly over dramatic for what is in that article. All they do with Google is trivial things like updating your systems internal clock. A large portion of what is in that article is able to be disabled and prevented by not using Micro-G.
There seems to be massive beef and drama between Calyx and Graphene communities, I have no idea what any of that is about, but this dramatization doesn’t help.
GrapheneOS supports recent Pixels. I think right now they are supporting the 5a and later, with legacy and extended support back to the 4.
In general, they stop providing updates when Google does. Check both to be sure, but newer is better if you want longer support.
I’m going Google will launch a Pixel 8a in a couple months so I can either get it or the 8 at a discount.
For posterity and nuance, here’s the answer from their site: Which devices are supported? but you’re right for the most part.
Grapehene has historically offered extended support, but for the longest support time the pixel 8 isnt a bad option. The 7a is also I think the king of budget phones right now but the 8 is on sale for a few hundred off the last I checked :)
And the unfortunate part, is that only Pixels are supported by this.
Because unlike the Fairphone guys google actually plays fairly and builds a decent phone with security in mind.
I can’t speak for privacy interworkings but Motorola makes it very easy to unlock the bootloader. I’m a fan of Xiaomi as well but my current Motorola is doing everything I need it to do and wasn’t expensive at all.
This isn’t about malware, it’s about how much you value your data and how likely it is for a mobile phone to be lost / stolen. GrapheneOS + Pixel phone is the only true option if you want any kind of ensure that even of the device is lost your data won’t be accessed.
Details here: https://lemmy.world/comment/8732695
GrapheneOS + Pixel phone is the only true option if you want any kind of ensure that even of the device is lost your data won’t be accessed.
I think that’s an exaggeration. You don’t need secure boot for your data to be encrypted. What secure boot prevents is someone modifying the device without your knowledge (e.g. to capture your keys).
Yes, and if they capture your keys what happens? They get to your data.
Why is this a problem? Buy one used if buying from Google is a problem. Then flash.
This irony shows the superiority of Google.
They monopolize without having intention of monopoly.
It’s admirable
casts protect
iPhone
In regards to stock systems, I agree.
Been stuck in the convenient ecosystem for a while, and I cope by telling myself Apple makes the bulk of its money with hardware and services. Not ads like Google. But if I would start over from zero, I think Graphene OS and Linux would be the way. But migrating the whole family away from our current Apple line up - I dread that challenge.
Eh, you can always start with yourself. Let the rest make their own decisions.
The thing about the Apple experience is that it doesn’t only integrate well among your own devices, but also others. Being isolated from that can be pretty challenging, especially if you are the only one in the family. Unless you come up with a whole marketing concept to make the change seem attractive to other (not techy) family members, you’d be cycling uphill.
Can you be more specific?
I’ve heard this argument, but AFAIK the main things are iMessage and FaceTime. I don’t know about your family, but I generally don’t want FaceTime most of the time. I haven’t used iMessage, but it seems like Signal is a drop in replacement, and the benefits are compatibility with Android and desktop apps for Windows and Linux.
Perhaps the play is to switch one app at a time. That’s what I’m going to try to get ready to leave Android for Linux phones (assuming they’ll be daily-driveable at some point).
iMessage and FaceTime are really not that relevant outside the US and, as you said, can be relatively easily replaced by Signal. As another commenter pointed out, it’s more about little things like Airdrop or iCloud’s all around seamlessness that cannot be matched by anything else I’ve tried. Family sharing alone would be a major loss if I were to switch. What Google or Microsoft have to offer in that regard is laughable in comparison (not that they’re any more “private”), and AFAIK, there is no FOSS alternative all of the iCloud family sharing functionality.
Makes sense, thanks for elaborating.
I’ll have to look into the FOSS tools to see what could be a reasonable set of alternatives. Some initial thoughts:
- KDE Connect - connects phone to Linux computer in an interesting way - easy to send files, see SMS, and a couple other things; it’s a bit chunky, but maybe something I could help with
- restic - automatic backup for desktop; pair with Syncthing to automatically keep stuff on your phone synced with your desktop
- Steam now has better family sharing, and you could set something like Plex up to handle video streaming for owned content
But each of these are a bit inconvenient compared to what Apple offers. I’ll think about it some more, and maybe I’ll try building something. My kids will be getting old enough to have phones in a couple years, and I’d really rather avoid Apple’s ecosystem, but their friends will likely all have iPhones so I’ll want a reason for them to prefer something else.
I already use KDE Connect to exchange files with my Linux laptop and it’s not the best, but it’s good enough for the occasional thing.
Steam is not a solution IMO because it locks you in just as much as Apple while being clunky and giving you the illusion of choice. And it’s only for games. Family sharing on Apple products is more than games. If you’ve bought apps or subscriptions, you can share them with family members at no additional cost (if the app opts into that which is disclosed to you very clearly in the App Store). Screen Time is great to block apps above a certain age rating and to restrict or outright block purchases for children. Another thing is location sharing in the Find My app. I know there are many solutions for that, but I just like the UX in the Find My app a lot more.
About the Plex server, I’ve heard they’ve changed their TOS and are now pretty shady or something. Also, if I were to make a server like that, I’d be pirating stuff anyway which I already do through my go-to pseudo-streaming piracy sites.
I could see myself hosting a Synology NAS in the future, but that is still not as convenient or well thought out as the iCloud services tbh.
There’s the little things like airdrop as well
I guess there’s not a super convenient alternative, but maybe something like Syncthing would be close enough?
But yeah, any kind of data synchronization or resource sharing is a little awkward.
This made me laugh
The downside of Google Pixels is that they don’t have jack connector and sd slot.
But I accepted the deal just to use GrapheneOS (I bought one used on ebay). Sometimes the battery lasts 3 days without being recharged.
People at GrapheneOS should really focus on some brand that cares about users on the hardware side.
Yup, I honestly don’t care about the special features on the Pixel (esp camera), I literally only want it because of GrapheneOS and longer term software support.
I would love it if the GrapheneOS project made their own phone and supported it for a really long time. Maybe coordinate with Fairphone or something, IDK.
Same
another good place to buy a used one is https://swappa.com
Unfortunately, buying from outside US, although possible, is a pain in the neck. You need agreement with the seller AND use a freight forwarder.
Swappa is a US-based marketplace. Sellers located outside the United States cannot create listings on Swappa. International buyers can buy on Swappa if they provide a US shipping address and use a US-based payment source.
Which pixel is getting you that battery life? My 6 has been struggling to make it through a day on GrapheneOS recently.
6a. Though I don’t use the phone that much, most of the battery is drained by Telegram FOSS.
Here are two old screenshots
Do you use the google play services and/or the alternate user accounts?
No, I’m Google free for at least 5 years now. I only have Aurora Store for the PS App.
I really only use FOSS apps.If you need advices to breaking free, feel free to ask.
Ooh that might be why your battery is so good. The Google services do eat up a lot of charge it seems.
On the google free, I’m not perfect but I’m def conscious, and already am using mostly foss apps. The rest is just social media I can’t really avoid. Thanks for the proposition though!
Have 6a and I actually got the same battery results as you
For me it has to be Fairphone. They are more expensive than the others to buy new but they are more aligned with openness and free software. They receive updates for a long time, are well supported by CalyxOS, /e/os, Linux mobile OSs etc, are repairable, you can carry extra batteries, usually have an SD card slot and two SIM slots and are more environmentally-friendly than others.
i second getting a fairphone, but look into a second battery or a power bank for heavy use.
OnePlus.
I’d never buy Samsung again, they are full of bloat and make it excessively hard to unlock the bootloader and get root access or install an alternative OS.
@viking@infosec.pub @clark@midwest.social
I had multiple OnePlus phones and I still think it’s the best Android phone on the market with great CP. But I am currently using Moto X40, great experience too.Oh that’s good to know, thanks! I’ve read that from the OnePlus 12 onwards there won’t be a localized OxygenOS anymore, only ColorOS, which is full of China-bloat. I’m still happy with the 10 Pro, but when the time comes and this holds true, I’ll be looking for alternatives.
Samsung support is also a straight up scam. They’ll lie to your face about how they’re getting ready to send you a replacement, and then ghost you. I hope the feds sue them too but I’m not holding my breath. We filed a complaint with our state’s AG and fuck all came of it.
Don’t exclude Pixel phones so quickly. They are one of the most versatile for custom ROMs, and they check all of your checkboxes. I love my CalxyOS Pixel 6.
But no SD card slot. ☹
Or headphone jack
The pixel 6 is a heavy POS. I like the 4a. Its refreshingly & reasonably sized
What phone brand do you like the best?
(I have excluded Graphene as they are only compatible with Pixel phones).
You’re asking this on the privacy mag and intentionally/explicitly exclude the best privacy option with no explanation.
Wtf.
GrapheneOS isn’t a phone brand.
It might as well be since it only works on Google Pixels.
If privacy is important, a custom ROM is highly recommended or rather mandatory. Most brands have locked boot loader which can’t be unlocked immediately without voiding warranty. Some let you to using some bs proprietary software but only after few months. That was the only reason I had to resort to getting a pixel. So look into all the brands available to you and check their policy on custom rooms before looking into the mobile themselves.
adb debloating is adequate.
there may be additional steps for LOS privacy.If you don’t remove play service and shit without being unable to use payment apps and other shut, it’s not gonna work for majority. Those are worst offenders that have to be removed for privacy.
Sony. They still have a headphone jack.
Also asus (at least zenphone)
Headphone Jack club
Why exclude GrapheneOS? It’s a really good mobile OS, and the creator has given his reasons for only supporting Pixels.
pine64 because freedom.
You can’t just recommend Pinephone.
It is at best an half baked device. Phone calls are not that good and I had to manually enable VoLTE and flashed a custom firmware on the modem.I’d love a Pinephone, but that’s not happening until it’s usable as a phone, meaning:
- MMS
- decent call audio
- reliable wake up from suspend
- decent battery life
I don’t even care about the camera working, fingerprint sensors, etc. I literally just want a phone that works reliably as a phone with super long term software support.
it ha physical killswitchs. thats pretty appealing if u need that.
xiaomi has awesome hardware, audio jack, sd slot, even ir blaster.
their privacy policy is bad, but a lot of them have official lineageos (and microg-patched lineage) and it works really really well.
Currently in the process of installing Lineageos on my brothers redmi note 10 pro.
Its a huge pain compared to my phone, mainly because unlocking the bootloader requires an account with his number connected. Then I had to install Windows to use their shitty unlock app, which the requires you to wait up to 30 days for seemingly no reason. Luckily “just” a week for us.
But yeah the hardware is amazing.
yes the unlock process is obtuse as fuck! they do something similar to samsung and their RMM bullshit of having to wait.
luckily, unlike samsung, after its done they wont bother you again.
Its actually so good that the redmi note 8 (with lineageos-mucrog) I had before performed basically the same as my pixel 6a
also their subbrand Poco.
Until their cheap manufacturing quality makes them stop working because of a motherboard failure
chinese electronics have come a long way, if you dont get them from the dollar store that is
Check out the Poco X3 Pro motherboard failure, and this is a common issue in a lot of Poco and Redmi phones, the only one that are worth it are the high ends Mi devices, and at that price point you can just buy a Pixel phone
a poster is indicating its a software issue, caused by an update. im not using stock firmware and there aint more official updates to my phone. this seems to contradict what you are saying a little bit, you just looking this up?
i also had a motorola motherboard die on me, faulty nand, doesnt mean all motorolas have bad motherboards.
For Privacy?
Not e2ee. Can be tapped.
Only with physical access, which nowaday nobody does.
Nah, just ask the telecoms nicely and they’ll give you whatever stream you want.
I wouldn’t put it past an insurance company.
