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BubsyFanboy@szmer.info to World News@lemmy.mlEnglish · 3 months ago

Poland's PM urges Europe to act over Ukraine

www.polskieradio.pl

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  • cross-posted to:
  • world@lemmy.world
  • news@beehaw.org
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Poland's PM urges Europe to act over Ukraine

www.polskieradio.pl

BubsyFanboy@szmer.info to World News@lemmy.mlEnglish · 3 months ago
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  • cross-posted to:
  • world@lemmy.world
  • news@beehaw.org
Europe needs its own plan for Ukraine and for its own security or its future will be decided by other powers, the Polish Prime Minister said on Saturday.
  • Foni@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    The European Union as a whole already spends more on defense than Russia or China, it is just a matter of coordinating spending by unifying efforts

    • mathemachristian[he]@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      yeah spends it on US weapons. It’s a money laundering front to funnel european public money to private US investors

      • Foni@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        Luckily that is a problem with a solution as simple as obvious

        • mathemachristian[he]@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          I don’t see it

          • Foni@lemm.ee
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            3 months ago

            Ok, my failure, I believed that if the problem was to spend your defense budget on US weapons, the option to spend it on non US weapons was evident. In any case, surely the French, Belgian, Spanish or British defense industry would be happy to have new clients

            • mathemachristian[he]@lemmy.ml
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              3 months ago

              The issue with that is that the production of arms in the EU is next non-existent when compared to Russia and the US. Europe has been heavily de-industrialized and already has problems covering its energy budget. You can’t just throw money at that problem, because you don’t just need to rebuild factories, but infrastructure. Not to mention the brain-drain caused by academics moving to the US and China where actual research happens.

              • Foni@lemm.ee
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                3 months ago

                I have not found data on arms production grouped by country, but I have found data on exports and this makes me doubt your statement. In any case, we do not have to face a war right now, considering R&D and industrialization as defense objectives could put us at the right level in perhaps a decade.

                • mathemachristian[he]@lemmy.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  Have a read through here if you’re interested https://hir.harvard.edu/untitled-2-ready-for-combat-the-future-of-the-european-defense-industry/

    • Korkki@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      Money spent=/=production or productive capacity or performance.

      Everything in the west is just really fucking expensive, because defense industry is a racket meant to make profit not weapons.

    • ∞🏳️‍⚧️Edie [it/its, she/her, fae/faer, love/loves, null/void, des/pair, none/use name]@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      And? Bying 1 152mm artillery shell at 4000$ doesn’t automatically mean it is better than the 1000$ one, it just means you got overcharged.

    • wellfill@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      https://www.ft.com/content/93d44b5a-a087-4059-9891-f18c77efca4b source?

      • Foni@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

        Just taking Germany+France+Italy+Poland+Spain already comes more than what Russia spends

        Nor am I a military expert, I do not know how reliable they are that data or I will discuss the efficiency of the expense, but I am sure to have 27 army generates many inefficiencies that could be resolved by centralizing things

        • wellfill@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          Ok, lets take a look at the IISS table because the sipri only uses estimates for Russia. When you look at the source of the IISS table you get to a graph which shows that while for all other countries expenditure, the one for Russia and China have been ppp adjusted, meaning that the actual expenditure is different. The adjustment tells you what worth of goods you could buy from I’m assuming US market. Why the wiki table shows only these recalculated values for just Russia and China is beyond me. I also found an actually accessible article version of the FT https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/russias-2024-military-budget-exceeds-total-eu-defense-spending-ft/ar-AA1yWN0u To sum up the Russian expenditure DID exceed the european as in the FT, it only may be unclear what weapons they bought with it, but for the argument that EU outspends them, that is wrong.

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