I think progressives never thought about this because we banked on immigration and demographic change allowing us to win culturally and electorally but the issue is immigrants tend to be overwhelmingly male, that is how Trump won actually he won over a lot of Hispanic,Black,Asian and indigenous men who feel humiliated by a new culture, economy and world.
So what can we do rhetorically and policy wise to win more young men over ?
Punching nazis can be nice and masculine if you like.
We could show them the Letter Kenny episode where they beat up the neoNazis.
Or dome old captain america comics. A certain tarentino movie. Biography of any of a hundred oss/sas guys. Like a million soviet films on the subject.
There’s options.
Reclaim patriotism. Republicans love to wrap themselves in the flag, progressives need to do the same thing. It’s just a piece of the whole, but seeing pics of the LA protests with Mexican flags flying - that doesn’t help bring American voters to a cause.
Seeing a lot of flags in the No Kings protests was very satisfying. We have to take genuine patriotism back from MAGA faketriots.
A little out of the blue but I watched an episode of a German cooking show today where strangers are coupled in groups of five for a week and every day one of them has to cook for the rest of them. They then vote who was the best host.
This week was ALL 30-38 year-old straight Dads. Nobody talked about football.
Nobody chestbumped anyone. Nobody was mansplaning anything. Instead, they were all swooning over each others’ cooking skills, making each other cry over how much they love their kids and hugging each other for feeling insecure about their cooking. In other words it was the most realistic and “manly” portrayal of the male reality that I have seen in the media ever.
It’s easy to blame the media and the “culture war” for male alienation but I strongly believe that our perception of ourselves is largely influenced by our peer group’s portrayal in society. In other words: if I feel antagonized, I tend to overreact. If I am being told by Hollywood or social media to “stop being a mansplaning patriarch” I will be imprinted with the very idea to identify as such.
So long story short: non-toxic masculinity needs more representation AND it needs to come from a place of positivity, not judgement or condescension.
what is this cooking show because it sounds delightful. statesians have lost the plot when it comes to cooking shows
Idk how do you “sell” being a decent fucking person?
Simple. What do young men care about? Getting laid and getting paid. Promise them that, and you’ll get their votes.
You’ll need to use coded language, of course. But using coded language is politicians’ whole job.
Promote and get behind actual progressive candidates, not corporatist shills like Hillary or Kamala. I like Kshama Sawant because she calls shit like she sees it.
Quit trying to make young white men feel guilty for existing. I come from poor white trash. As near as I can tell, my family never benefitted from slavery in any possible way. So fuck you. I dont feel bad about something I didn’t do, no one in my family did, and we aint gonna pay for it.
I don’t know where this “white guilt” stuff comes from. I’m the same demo as you, but never felt that.
Oh boy you surely never were a part of the target then
You are losing the class war, that’s what matters. Not you being young, or white, or a man.
Education. You will never be able to explain taxes in a way that can counter propaganda if the person is an idiot. You just won’t. And until then it’s an uphill battle.
Talk about issues that affect the working class. Not the white working class, not working class men, just everyone who makes a living by drawing a wage. Progressive movements are formed by solidarity, and we have more in common with other working class people than any of the politicians or business leaders who set the tone of this debate.
Perfect.
You need to make it fun and engaging for them. That is what the far right is doining. You and I might find it reprehensible, but they het som much traction bu having fun and giving young men a purpose and the feeling that they are doing something to netter themselves and their commuity.
How you go about that I dont know. In my local area we are focusing on having fun partiets and going out together as a group instead of just being political nerds in our own little grottos. Som far it seems to be working.
Tl;dr: Have fun visibly and invite them to join you. It takes forever, but at least you have fun while doing it.
I KNOW! Let’s make June Men’s Mental Health month instead of… wait was it again?
Well it would be a good starting point if we actually had progressive politicians. The Democrats lose because they have no substantive platform for actually helping people because doing that would go against their donors. To be clear, it’s the same for Republicans. There’s a reason why the government just ping pongs between the two parties. The only reliable base either party has is the one that’s more culturally aligned with them, whatever that means at the time.
If they literally ever credibly ran on basic issues like housing, food, healthcare and the elections were fair, they would win. But they don’t, because they can’t, so they will never have consistent support.
If they literally ever credibly ran on basic issues like housing, food, healthcare and the elections were fair, they would win. But they don’t, because they can’t, so they will never have consistent support.
Exactly. Lack of election reform - lack of representative government for minorities and less funded groups - is blocking so many kinds of progress.
Hasan Piker basically
I find him very likable
Me too, but even if he wasn’t likable, he is good at rhetorically debating people on points of leftism in a way that I think is very productive for a lot of men to at least hear out.
I hope.
sigh
I wish the left had more people like him, we’d be in a much better position. People like him should be leading the Democratic party rather than aging neo-liberals.
Christ - some of these replies are exactly what a lot of women talk about when we say that Lemmy has a misogyny problem.
Blokes really don’t recognize how much harder shit actually is for women, overall. It would be lovely to just sit on a bench for 5 mins without a stranger coming to chat me up, or if people would stop crediting men for my work when they don’t even ask for it.
“How do we get young men into progressive politics?”
I know! I know! Make every conversation including this one about women!
when we say that Lemmy has a misogyny problem.
Yeah, it’s really disheartening that young men have decided to blame women for all their woes. I’m in my late thirties and it really seems like a reversal to me, instead of blaming late stage capitalism for disenfranchising their demographic they are somehow are blaming women.
Even if we hypothetically accept that “there is an attack on masculinity” who’s doing it? The vast majority of politicians are men, the vast majority of CEO are men, the vast majority of judges, lawyers, prosecutors… The list goes on and on. In nearly any hierarchical system of power in the world, men are in charge. So from whom is our masculinity really being attacked?
Gonna catch the down votes for this, but imo because our economic system has already exploited all other demographics, young white men are being systemically disenfranchised for the first time and are not dealing with it very well. Welcome to the club fellas, POC and especially women have been here the whole time!
I apologize in advance if I missed some very bad0 comments by not going into the deeply down voted comments.
But at least some of the concerns are about the young men being declared the “villains” and the other side declaring them to be the victims of injustice and they will gravitate toward the more workable message.
Like bystanders seeing the people making life hard for women and being jerks, but not themselves participating and the commentary is less “that guy is a dick” and more “why are all men so terrible?”
Sure a lot of guys are terrible, but the generalizations can make it feel like you can’t win.
at least some of the concerns are about the young men being declared the “villains” and the other side declaring them to be the victims of injustice and they will gravitate toward the more workable messag
That’s because people are framing this as a false dichotomy. All the masculinity warriors all try to frame the world as men are warriors under attack, and if you don’t think so you’re a man hating feminist.
In reality the majority of young dudes are just spending too much time being manipulated online and are blaming hardships created by our form of economics on wokeness.
Sure a lot of guys are terrible, but the generalizations can make it feel like you can’t win.
Only if you are weak of mind. I’m a dude, when someone says all men are bad…which never really happens. I don’t really take them literally, and even if I someday do run into someone who means it literally. Who cares, people are allowed to have opinions.
generalizations can make it feel like you can’t win.
Says the person who based their rebuttal by believing in a fabricated false dichotomy.
I don’t think you understand how politics works in a democracy.
I don’t follow the media and the debate where you live, but over here left leaning politicians and media tends to frame it as: women, minorites etc have a problem. Men are the problem.
You’re basically pushing any undecided man over to the right.
liberal politicians and liberal MSM frame it that way, because they have nothing else to offer but toxic culture wars.
Liberal politicians do it because it’s been pushed by the left. It’s how they keep leftists voting more centrally. They take left wing ideas, then water them down enough to appeal for centrist voters. Centrists find common sense ideas appealing, while those on the left get a dog whistle.
I lean quite to the left and have rarely, if ever, heard many boogie-man talking points in this comment thread that people are obsessed over. And in terms of “centrists” equating patriarchy with men, for me it’s an intelligence/education issue, combined with refusal to have real life human contact with women, and, of course, choosing to blame literally the oppressed for all the harm that patriarchy causes them or their fellow men
combined with refusal to have real life human contact with women,
It’s quite possible it’s the other way around on that one. I’ve certainly had periods of my life where I had to branch out pretty far in my social circle to meet women because the things I enjoyed doing are either solo activities or of little interest to women (at least around here). Some of that has gotten better in the last decade or so as nerdy shit has become more socially acceptable and ive built up a more diverse social network for myself but it was a rocky start and if I didn’t get lucky with the people I had around me it could have turned out much worse.
So we should lie?
Men are the problem. The patriarchy, the racism, the discrimination? Men.
And if you are too braindead to understand this, you’re too far gone anyway.
Men are the problem. The patriarchy, the racism, the discrimination? Men.
Ultra rich men are the problem. We’re losing a class war.
You can’t have a post like this and then wonder “Why do so many men go to the right?”
Maybe men are sick of being painted with a broad brush. We all have our own thoughts, beliefs and feelings.
“the group that lived through obscene levels of violence and abuse throughout dozens of centuries is incorrectly (that part is true) labeling all members of said group as abusers, let me join the group advocating for more abuse” - how the hell does one justify this unhinged statement is beyond me. I would like to clarify, I completely disagree with the comment you replied to, I think it’s deeply incorrect and unfair, in addition to ignorant, but that’s really not grounds forresorting to fascism and treating women as animals. Because if that justification of a minor uneducated subgroup being ignorant was honest, the extreme on the right are soo much more evil.
… And shoot your buck!
Troll grade: C-.
Does Trump pay you by the hour or per post?
I’m not payed, I just don’t see a reality where we can improve the world and not mention the hundreds of years of oppression by men at the same time, which, as you already said, will drive away the republicans. So you really gotta start thinking „should we ignore the obvious problem why woman are to this day fighting for human rights so we can find a compromise with Nazis?” and my answer is obviously no.
You’re making an excellent point here. I’ll bring it up at the next Council of Men that we should stop oppressing women. Good thing we figured that out - top notch work!
You should be paid because you’re basically campaigning for the republicans.You don’t drive away any core republican voter, they would never vote D. You drive away the ones who voted democrat last election.
You’re conflating a lot of things here
