Yeah, except the word changed to Palestinians. Some converted to Christianity, most converted to Islam, and plenty of ethnic mixing happened between the beginning of the diaspora and the nakhba, on both sides.
Yup! And since both nations want independence, why would only one be allowed to have it?
The problem is that the world has been completely blind to the crimes Israel has been committing, slowly encroaching on Palestinian land.
What needs to happen is the removal of current heads of Israeli state, ideally by execution for all the crimes against humanity they committed, a new democratic election on both sides of the fence (reminder: Palestinians enjoyed their last election in 2008 when Hamas took over and installed religious dictatorship), and then the establishment of a UN-coordinated force, ideally culturally neutral (like Japan/China/Korea) to ensure that the borders are respected.
Which is which? Palestinians didn’t exist as a nation (it was “the region of Palestine”, not a country) until the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. Which, fun fact, does have historical records of existence in the region… So? Which ones are the settlers?
Let me get this straight - a nation gets kicked out of their homeland, they become, effectively, wanderers, they travel through the ages through the entirety of Europe always believing they will one day return home, but… since it’s been however many generations, they now no longer have the right to return?
What’s the cut-off number of generations where you can no longer call something your home, when your ancestors were forcefully kicked out?
(also, we’re conveniently forgetting about the 100-300k Israelis/Jews that remained in current-day Israel and the Region of Palestine throughout those generations, I’m just wondering what’s your take on the right to live in a place)
So now they have the right to displace the people who are living there, genocide them.
What’s the cut-off number of generations where you can no longer call something your home, when your ancestors were forcefully kicked out?
So by your logic, US should give the land back to the native Americans. Or does might makes right.
also, we’re conveniently forgetting about the 100-300k Israelis/Jews that remained in current-day Israel and the Region of Palestine throughout those generations
They are not the genocidal maniacs. They have right to stay just as the Palestinians.
So now they have the right to displace the people who are living there
They started off fully mixed, but that didn’t work, and both parties involved are to blame here. The clear solution was to separate them, yes.
genocide them
No. Where did that come from…?
So by your logic, US should give the land back to the native Americans. Or does might makes right.
See, that’s the thing - by my logic, all the “historically this land was XYZ” is bullshit, and the only actual right to hold land comes from either diplomatic or military power. That’s how it always worked throughout history and only nationalist/genocidal maniacs ever talk about “historical rights”, everyone else just moves on.
Palestine AND Israel have the right to their own nation, and they both managed to achieve that through diplomacy. Later, Israel kept its land through military power, even when attacked by literally every country it shared borders with.
They are not the genocidal maniacs. They have right to stay just as the Palestinians
You might be surprised, but most Israelis aren’t. In fact, most Israelis want to get rid of Netanyahu and his clique.
Yeah, so you’re confusing the Kingdom of Israel, which is mentioned in Assyrian records, on the Moabite Stone, etc., etc.
The land was Egyptian before Jewish. So they have a more ancient right over that land. Maybe Syrians before them.
Yup. Which just highlights how stupid the whole “someone has the right to a territory because of [historical reasons]” is.
Reality is super simple: the right to a territory belongs to those who can obtain that territory and hold it. That’s how it always worked throughout history, even if we’re now trying to sugarcoat things by pretending that’s not the case. If russia didn’t fumble the full-scale war with Ukraine as bad as they had, and if Ukraine didn’t receive the support they did, within the next 5-10 years nobody would be talking about “occupied Ukraine”, it’d be just “russia”.
Poland moved a couple hundred kilometers to the west after the Second World War, Germany’s borders are completely different than they used to be, Great Britain lost its colonies - nobody gives a fuck about any “ancient right”, it’s literally only about power (both in terms of military capability, as well as diplomatic ability to negotiate and resolve conflicts).
And with that out of the way, the reality is this: Palestine received a nation state in the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. One has the exact same right to exist as the other - their diplomatic effort gave them these nations and that’s that.
What now needs to happen is for the UN to actually enforce its mandates by securing the borders at least as long as it takes Palestine to rebuild.
Israel in its present avatar didn’t exist before the British have it to Europeans. The land was taken from Arabs who were living under the Ottoman rules. There were Jews living there but were a minority.
Europeans just exported their problems elsewhere and are now propping it up.
Palestine received a nation state in the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. One has the exact same right to exist as the other - their diplomatic effort gave them these nations and that’s that.
Yet it allowed for the theocratic colony of Israel to continue is genocide.
The only way to ensure peace in Middle East is for Israel to not exist and all the Europeans go back to their own countries.
Israel in its present avatar didn’t exist before the British have it to Europeans
Yeah, same with Palestine.
The land was taken from Arabs who were living under the Ottoman rules.
Who took the land from Jews/Israelis.
There were Jews living there but were a minority.
Because they were persecuted and forced into exile, yes.
Yet it allowed for the theocratic colony of Israel to continue is genocide.
You keep using that word, but I don’t think you understand what it means.
Palestine went from a population of 600k to 5 million in the span of 100 years. That’s a faster growth than Denmark. If that’s “genocide”, then, my god, it has to be the most incompetent genocide in the history of our species, considering it worked backwards.
The only way to ensure peace in Middle East is for Israel to not exist and all the Europeans go back to their own countries.
Or, and hear me out, a strong contingent of culturally-neutral forces that ensure no settlers take land from Palestine, the prosecution of said settlers, the proper establishment of the rule of law and democracy in Palestine (last elections in 2008 due to Hamas’ theocratic authoritarianism).
And, please, stop with this ridiculous “Europeans”. Or, if you don’t, I’ll start calling Palestinians “Iranians”. Makes as much sense. Deal?
Israelis lived in that area for at least 3000 years.
Not the ones in Israel now, they are genetically European.
Already answered here. In short: you’re wrong.
Yeah, except the word changed to Palestinians. Some converted to Christianity, most converted to Islam, and plenty of ethnic mixing happened between the beginning of the diaspora and the nakhba, on both sides.
Yup! And since both nations want independence, why would only one be allowed to have it?
The problem is that the world has been completely blind to the crimes Israel has been committing, slowly encroaching on Palestinian land.
What needs to happen is the removal of current heads of Israeli state, ideally by execution for all the crimes against humanity they committed, a new democratic election on both sides of the fence (reminder: Palestinians enjoyed their last election in 2008 when Hamas took over and installed religious dictatorship), and then the establishment of a UN-coordinated force, ideally culturally neutral (like Japan/China/Korea) to ensure that the borders are respected.
One is a nation other is a settler colony.
Which is which? Palestinians didn’t exist as a nation (it was “the region of Palestine”, not a country) until the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. Which, fun fact, does have historical records of existence in the region… So? Which ones are the settlers?
European Jews are the settlers.
Let me get this straight - a nation gets kicked out of their homeland, they become, effectively, wanderers, they travel through the ages through the entirety of Europe always believing they will one day return home, but… since it’s been however many generations, they now no longer have the right to return?
What’s the cut-off number of generations where you can no longer call something your home, when your ancestors were forcefully kicked out?
(also, we’re conveniently forgetting about the 100-300k Israelis/Jews that remained in current-day Israel and the Region of Palestine throughout those generations, I’m just wondering what’s your take on the right to live in a place)
So now they have the right to displace the people who are living there, genocide them.
So by your logic, US should give the land back to the native Americans. Or does might makes right.
They are not the genocidal maniacs. They have right to stay just as the Palestinians.
They started off fully mixed, but that didn’t work, and both parties involved are to blame here. The clear solution was to separate them, yes.
No. Where did that come from…?
See, that’s the thing - by my logic, all the “historically this land was XYZ” is bullshit, and the only actual right to hold land comes from either diplomatic or military power. That’s how it always worked throughout history and only nationalist/genocidal maniacs ever talk about “historical rights”, everyone else just moves on.
Palestine AND Israel have the right to their own nation, and they both managed to achieve that through diplomacy. Later, Israel kept its land through military power, even when attacked by literally every country it shared borders with.
You might be surprised, but most Israelis aren’t. In fact, most Israelis want to get rid of Netanyahu and his clique.
European Jews didn’t, don’t quote religious books or Persians, Egyptian have more rights over that region than Jews.
Religious books…? Are you confusing the Kingdom of Israel with the biblical “United Kingdom of Israel”?
The existence of Kingdom of Israel is an ongoing academic debate and has no connection to the current Israel if at all they existed.
The land was Egyptian before Jewish. So they have a more ancient right over that land. Maybe Syrians before them.
Yeah, so you’re confusing the Kingdom of Israel, which is mentioned in Assyrian records, on the Moabite Stone, etc., etc.
Yup. Which just highlights how stupid the whole “someone has the right to a territory because of [historical reasons]” is.
Reality is super simple: the right to a territory belongs to those who can obtain that territory and hold it. That’s how it always worked throughout history, even if we’re now trying to sugarcoat things by pretending that’s not the case. If russia didn’t fumble the full-scale war with Ukraine as bad as they had, and if Ukraine didn’t receive the support they did, within the next 5-10 years nobody would be talking about “occupied Ukraine”, it’d be just “russia”.
Poland moved a couple hundred kilometers to the west after the Second World War, Germany’s borders are completely different than they used to be, Great Britain lost its colonies - nobody gives a fuck about any “ancient right”, it’s literally only about power (both in terms of military capability, as well as diplomatic ability to negotiate and resolve conflicts).
And with that out of the way, the reality is this: Palestine received a nation state in the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. One has the exact same right to exist as the other - their diplomatic effort gave them these nations and that’s that.
What now needs to happen is for the UN to actually enforce its mandates by securing the borders at least as long as it takes Palestine to rebuild.
Israel in its present avatar didn’t exist before the British have it to Europeans. The land was taken from Arabs who were living under the Ottoman rules. There were Jews living there but were a minority.
Europeans just exported their problems elsewhere and are now propping it up.
Yet it allowed for the theocratic colony of Israel to continue is genocide.
The only way to ensure peace in Middle East is for Israel to not exist and all the Europeans go back to their own countries.
Yeah, same with Palestine.
Who took the land from Jews/Israelis.
Because they were persecuted and forced into exile, yes.
You keep using that word, but I don’t think you understand what it means.
Palestine went from a population of 600k to 5 million in the span of 100 years. That’s a faster growth than Denmark. If that’s “genocide”, then, my god, it has to be the most incompetent genocide in the history of our species, considering it worked backwards.
Or, and hear me out, a strong contingent of culturally-neutral forces that ensure no settlers take land from Palestine, the prosecution of said settlers, the proper establishment of the rule of law and democracy in Palestine (last elections in 2008 due to Hamas’ theocratic authoritarianism).
And, please, stop with this ridiculous “Europeans”. Or, if you don’t, I’ll start calling Palestinians “Iranians”. Makes as much sense. Deal?