For example, let’s say Bernie Sanders was the nominee in 2024 against Trump. A lot of people on the internet seem to like him, even some conservatives. But would liberals fall in line and vote for him enough to beat Trump?
Bernie’s supporters always seem to attack the Democrats liberal base, do you think they’d sit home if Bernie or any leftist was the nominee.
No. Liberals have always been closer to fascists than socialists. Look which way liberals in Weimar Germany went.
The word “liberals” means something else in Germany than in the US. The closes analogy would be Democrats=SPD and Republicans=CDU, which are the two biggest parties. When Hitler took over, the CDU fell in line while the SPD resisted. The SPD then was also a lot more leftist than it is now. It’s pretty much centrist now and only slightly more to the left than the conservative CDU.
Back then, the SPD had politicians with a backbone made of steel! Hitler tried to intimidate the members of parliament by having the SS and SA surround the building (Krolloper), and for the most part, this tactic worked. However, Otto Wels and the SPD stood firm and voted against the ‘Ermächtigungsgesetz’ (Enabling Act). In his famous speech, Wels declared: ‘You can take away our freedom and our lives, but not our honor.’ Many SPD members paid the ultimate price for their courage, and Otto Wels himself died in exile in France in 1939.
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My headcanon:
Leftist: One who supports the general ideas of the Democratic party and supports the people at the head and their usual goings-on, voted Harris, enjoy the color blue.
Liberal: A Leftist, but they don’t think their party speaks for them enough, or aren’t extreme enough on certain issues they don’t think are represented enough, so they think the party has abandoned or doesn’t speak for them. These can be anyone from lgbtq+ activists to worker unions to Bernie Sanders. The idea that the left has left you, or whatever you stand for, and you are the liberal left.
Liberal(2nd definition): Someone who’s into traditionalist communist ideals, Lemmy calls them “tankies”. These tend to… not be what most people are talking about when they say liberal, despite arguments to the contrary.
Correct me if I’m wrong, this is in the context of the USA.
You got liberals and leftist mixed up
To throw one more into the mix:
“Left” and “Right” came from the UK parliamentary system where the representatives of the two major parties sat on the left and right side of the speaker of the house in the House of Commons.
It just so happened that the ones on the right had conservative values (keep things as they are, don’t spend what we don’t have, local economy first, preserve traditional values) while those seated on the left had liberal values (let’s make things even better, spend for the future, improve the global economy, make life better for all our constituents).
That was the starting point for what it’s all morphed into today.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left–right_political_spectrum#Western_Europe
The left–right political spectrum is a system of classifying political positions, ideologies and parties, with emphasis placed upon issues of social equality and social hierarchy. In addition to positions on the left and on the right, there are centrist and moderate positions, which are not strongly aligned with either end of the spectrum. It originated during the French Revolution based on the seating in the French National Assembly.
You damn Brits can’t have that one for the National Museum!
In the context of Germany, “liberal” means being for capitalism unbridled by the state but still generally progressive policies culturally, with more rights for minorities and such. The corresponding party is FDP. So in some ways it’s the exact opposite of the US idea of “liberal”.
Someone considered “left” would be for more social policies and government control of capitalism (traditionally SPD), extreme left would be following tenants of communism, opposed to the US and friendly with Russia (The party The Left and the new Sarah Wagenknecht party)
Someone considered conservative or “right” would be against social policies and try to reduce control of capitalism (CDU) extreme right would be plain fascists (AfD), ironically also aligned with Russia now.
The Greens are a special case, since they were originally a single issue party concerned with environmentalism, but since the SPD has largely vacated their social policies since Schröder was chancellor, they have become more and more the new “social” party.
There are also a huge number of smaller parties that are unable to reach more than five percent, which is necessary to be included in the govenmental body of the Bundestag. Most of those are single issue parties (there is even a beer party). The FDP has become so unpopular that it might also share that fate soon.
To come back to your original point, there were no “liberals” when Hitler was elected. There were conservatives, socialists and communists. The conservatives aligned themselves with the fascists and the socialists and communists were outlawed and thrown into jail/executed.
I don’t at all understand how you got your definition of “liberal”. I think anyone who could conceivably be called a “tankie” would bristle at being called liberal.
Both of our American parties are liberals. However, most Americans use the word to mean “progressive”.
I think “Leftist” starts at anti-capitalism and goes from there. I half jokingly say a progressive is someone who thinks the system is broken and must be fixed. A Leftist is someone who thinks the system is working exactly as intended and must be destroyed.
Lol wut?
I agree, that didn’t make sense on its surface. By definition, liberalism and fascism are at odds. According to Wikipedia,
Now, if I had to guess at what OP meant, perhaps it’s that America’s Liberals are more closely aligned with its Conservatives (who are not all fascists yet but are rapidly embracing fascism over the past decade, probably longer) than they would be with pure leftists (as in full-on Socialists/Communists, which Bernie, a Social Democrat, is not). Best recent evidence I can think of for this is the DNC actively colluding against Sanders in the primaries of 2016 and 2020 and consciously omitting leftist policy from their platform in 2024, instead replacing it with moderate Republican policies.
In short, I believe mainstream Democrats would endorse Republicans if it meant keeping a true leftist from power.