Summary

Ontario Premier Doug Ford warned that Canada could cut off energy exports to the U.S. if Donald Trump imposes a proposed 25% tariff on Canadian goods.

Ford emphasized that 60% of U.S. crude oil imports and 85% of electricity imports come from Canada, highlighting the potential impact.

Canadian leaders, including Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, criticized the tariffs as harmful to both economies, while Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland suggested broader retaliatory measures.

The dispute raises concerns over trade relations and escalating economic uncertainty for both nations.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    6 hours ago

    Ford emphasized that 60% of U.S. crude oil imports and 85% of electricity imports come from Canada, highlighting the potential impact.

    The thing is we had record breaking production under trump, again under Biden, and most likely will break records again with trump.

    Countries play this shell game where they import/export the same product to maximize tax incentives, which just means using fossil fuels to ship fossil fuels all over, or environmentally destructive pipelines.

    We export about 125,000,000 barrels of crude a month, and import about 120,000,000 barrels of crude from Canada a month…

    What the actual fuck is the point?

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrexus1&f=m

    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=63564&os=0

    • Bronzebeard@lemm.ee
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      27 minutes ago

      Not all crude oil is the same.

      The US has some pretty premium stuff that can be made into jet fuel and the like, and imports more lower quality stuff that is used for gasoline, etc.

    • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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      5 hours ago

      Without knowing the specifics, my guess would be that a refinery near the Great Lakes might have a shorter distance, so fewer costs and emissions importing oil from Canada than Texas.

      That said, fuckery is really everywhere, so you might be right.

        • Windex007@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          I’m trying to understand your line of thinking and it seems to necessitate accepting that oil isn’t moving between inputs and outputs at the most cost effective way, which would necessitate oil and gas companies intentionally working in a way that isn’t about maximizing profit.

          Am I misunderstanding your premise in such a way that I’m inappropriately needing to bake that in?

          • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
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            3 hours ago

            There was a shell game with aluminum a number of years back where truckload ofbit just…moved around…to raise stock prices. It wouldn’t surprise me if the same things happened with oil.

            Source.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            5 hours ago

            which would necessitate oil and gas companies intentionally working in a way that isn’t about maximizing profit.

            No. I’m saying because it’s slightly more profitable they pipe it all over, somehow you took the opposite message?

            I assumed we didn’t need to talk about why pipelines are bad, did I overestimate?

            Like…

            Oil pipeline protests have been pretty big news for decades now, I thought everyone commenting on an article about gas pipelines was up to speed.

            Quick edit:

            Deja Vue…

            We had another conversation a week ago where I went over the basics of why oil pipelines are bad, and nothing I explained seemed to have stuck. It was even about Canada/US pipelines too.

            Someone else may be able to explain it differently, but I’m not gonna be able to help.

    • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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      4 hours ago

      the crude you are exporting is not the same kind of crude that you’re importing, and depending on what refineries take they can make different products with more or less problems

      • RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        This is exactly right. Most Canadian crude is actually tar. They have to use lighter grades of oil to dilute it to even be able to pump it.

        If they cut us off, we can get more from Venezuela or the price of asphalt goes up.

        Our cars, planes, trains, chemical plants, and power stations continue just fine.

      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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        3 hours ago

        Yeah, Canadian crude is mostly heavy. Do you know where the Americans are sending their light crude (and why they don’t just refine it themselves)?

    • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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      3 hours ago

      Hmm. Canada doesn’t really have much refining capacity, and you subsidise yours (or so I’ve been told) which is why we send it all down there.

      Interesting that your exports are around the same. Where are you exporting to? That might help solve the mystery.

    • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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      5 hours ago

      The oil and gas is in certain places of the country, the refineries are in other places in the country, the consumers of oil are all over the country, and both Canada and the US are very big countries which is why there is a lot of moving around.

      All in all, there are similar elements to an electrical grid where energy is needed at different times of day or the year, except that it moves slower.

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13202-021-01266-3

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        That’s a “open access” journal specifically for the fossil fuel industry…

        https://doaj.org/toc/2190-0566

        For $2,190.00 they publish literally fucking anything.

        So some industries (like fossil fuels) pay to have a bunch of studies published that all say what they’re doing is necessary and any environmental concerns are completely overblown.

        Like…

        This behavior isn’t new or rare. But it’s very easy to check.

        • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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          4 hours ago

          I wasn’t mentioning that it is isn’t concering (it is), but I am only pushing back on that the suggestion that they would be pushing oil bidirectionally just for fun or profiting off of useless deliveries.