• anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    18 hours ago

    We cannot vote our way out of this

    Idk how many times the democrats need to prove this, but the DNC exists to protect capital interests against socialist policies and candidates.

    This isn’t a problem with FPTP systems, its a problem of class conflict, and our whole fucking system was built with it in mind. Democrats will sooner partner with fascists to arrest progressive opposition than allow them to pull the country to the left of them.

            • yucandu@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              11 hours ago

              Alright that sounds awesome but is also super vague and leaves out all the important steps like the how and the when.

              • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                9 hours ago

                Step 1: Engender class consciousness in the american working class <— You are here

                Step 2: Organize

                Step 3: Demonstrate

                Step 4: Continue escalating until the capital class is forced to negotiate

                Notice that ‘vote’ does not appear on this list.

            • yucandu@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              13 hours ago

              The one that they keep spending billions of dollars every year to influence, including spreading the myth that your vote doesn’t matter, to discourage voter participation.

              • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                8
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                12 hours ago

                The one that they keep spending billions of dollars every year to influence

                Which is why voting cannot overcome capital. I’m not saying voting is pointless, only that voting has been made to be incapable of undoing the power that has accumulated under capital.

                The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.

                • yucandu@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  11 hours ago

                  Which is why voting cannot overcome capital.

                  Why not? Have you tried? The internet is the greatest opportunity in American history - you no longer need to be a newspaper tycoon or a TV or radio station owner to reach people. Just the right message and the right personality.

                  China and Russia are tricking people on the internet right now into storming Area 51, eating tide pods, electing a fascist, and they did it all for PENNIES.

                  • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    ·
                    10 hours ago

                    Why not?

                    Because capital will never cede power without a threat of violence (implicit or otherwise).

                    China and Russia […] did it all for PENNIES

                  • Michael@slrpnk.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    10 hours ago

                    Or, hear me out, a majority of this is homegrown because rich people see the appetite for socialism and socialist policies in their populace and they are scared they will lose their royal thrones.

                    The answer to socialism was fascism and propaganda last century, the same playbook is being used today.

              • Michael@slrpnk.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                edit-2
                13 hours ago

                The one that they keep spending billions of dollars every year to influence, including spreading the myth that your vote doesn’t matter, to discourage voter participation.

                If billions are being used to influence elections, and that isn’t all grassroots - there isn’t democracy.

                The form of capitalism we enjoy currently and democracy are fundamentally opposed.

                • yucandu@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  11 hours ago

                  If billions are being used to influence elections, and that isn’t all grassroots - there isn’t democracy.

                  I’m not an absolutist. It is democracy, just not as democratic as it should be.

                  Take Russia, for example. They overcame the DNC’s billions with a few hundred thousand on internet bots to trick America into electing a fascist. The internet was a wide open propaganda hole that everyone overlooked, and you didn’t even need to be a billionaire to reach people on it.

                  Why aren’t you trying as hard as they are? Are you too comfortable in American decadency?

        • Hanrahan@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          14 hours ago

          Exactly, it’s a voter problem. We have a ranked choice voting system in Australia with cumpolsory voting, same as everywhere, we mostly elect fools and asshats.

          But then some some 2000 years ago

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

          Juvenal originally used it to decry the “selfishness” of common people and their neglect of wider concerns. The phrase implies a population’s erosion or ignorance of civic duty as a priority.

          80% simply don’t really give a shit.

          Susan Sontag was asked what she had learned from the Holocaust, and she said that 10% of any population is cruel, no matter what, and that 10% is merciful, no matter what, and that the remaining 80% could be  moved in either direction” —Kurt Vonnegut

          • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            12 hours ago

            It’s not a voter problem, it’s a capitalism problem.

            In a capitalist democracy, it’s capital that sets the rules for governance, not the other way around. You can have a social democracy, but you can’t undo capital in a capitalist democracy by voting.

            • yucandu@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              4 hours ago

              You’re incredibly defeatist. You absolutely can, that’s why they keep spending so much money trying to influence our vote.

              • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 hours ago

                I agree that spending boatloads of money on propaganda is an effective way of dictating the terms of an election.

                It’s possible that you just don’t agree that capital owners have more money and influence than the rest of the country by orders of magnitude, and that somehow if we just yell really really loudly that we can overcome that immense power differential.

          • yucandu@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            13 hours ago

            Australia uses IRV, not STV, which is basically just FPTP with a fancier ballot. And nobody else on the planet uses this for multi-seat legislative assemblies. Only Australia.

            But if you’re advocating for increased educational funding so that voters aren’t idiots, I’m all for that, too.