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Gelato isn’t vegan?!
… Chicken isn’t vegan?
Yes. No animal was intentionally harmed or killed to be turned into oil. This puts it in the same category as foraged deer antlers or cicada wings, or I guess compost where you found a squirrel carcass and added it to the pile.
You could argue that animals are harmed by the process of extracting and burning fossil fuels, and thus it’s not vegan. But this isn’t very convincing to me, since that’s a secondary effect and not necessary to the process of consuming fossil fuels. (Or at least not necessary in the same way that killing chickens is necessary in order to make chicken sandwiches, for example.) And if you start worrying about a big web of consequences of your actions, then it seems like you’re mostly just adding stress to your life without actually making the world a better place.
So if a vegan has a pet chicken and treats it well, can the vegan eat the eggs?
Imo “backyard eggs” are really small potatoes, especially when like 98% of eggs globally come from factory farms. But even in that case, egg-laying hens are basically bred to suffer. They lay an egg every 1-2 days, compared to like once a month in the wild, which takes a huge amount of energy and nutrients. And we’ve bred them to produce eggs too big for their bodies, so that even when they’re treated really well, the vast majority of hens have bone fractures.
That’s why animal sanctuaries will usually either feed the eggs back to the hens, or give them medication to stop them from laying at all.
Of course, this is on top of the fact that 100% of egg-laying hen breeders, everywhere, kill the males shortly after birth because they can’t lay eggs. See this for more information.
I had a “pet” chicken when I was younger. One day we woke up and cockle-doodle-doo. It was a boy. I came home from school and he was gone.
Rip.
Bees aren’t intentionally harmed or killed to make honey but it isn’t vegan.
I mean I think bees are harmed in the production of honey, it’s just that most people don’t care about bee welfare. Commercially they’re bred by crushing the male to extract semen, and any operation above hobby scale will clip the wings of the queen so that the hive can’t escape.
Then you necessarily need to replace their ideal food source with something that is nutritionally much worse for them (basically sugar water), and then hope that they survive on that long enough to make more honey for us to take.
This isn’t entirely true. Sometimes queen bees have their wings cur off to insure they stay in the beehive, and thus make the beehive produce honey. Also, the queens can then often be discarded/killed at the end of the season. So no harm being done in the production of honey is not always the case.
I feel like there should be an option to certify honey as being vegan if no harm is done to the bees in the process though.
Honey isn’t vegan because it is an animal product, and veganism seeks to avoid animal exploitation and cruelty. I think any form of taking honey from bees would be considered exploitive but that’s just my view/opinion.
There’s a fair bit of nuance around the topic of whether honey should be vegan or not, since honeybees also overproduce, and that is its own problem. Like with sheep’s wool.
Although crude oil has the additional complication where it’s an incidental post-death product, like fertiliser, and from that viewpoint, it would be about as ethical.
Same argument could be used for Eggs and Milk then, those are not considered vegan, but in the end the animal does not get hurt.
Cows need to be impregnated by introducing an arm in their anus and holding their cervix so they can introduce a rod with semen in their uterus.
Male cows and chickens are useless to the industry so they usually get killed soon after birth.
Chickens usually are kept in cages the size of an A4 paper, cows also usually are very badly treated in order to be milked. Check out https://3minutes.wtf/ so you can see that even what the industry calls the “best animal treatment” is still very inhumane.
But what about self farmed eggs?
It’s not uncommon for people in rural areas to have chicken around. Those chicken are taken care of, and roam around big spaces. Those chicken will also lay eggs on their own without any harm done to them. Most harm done is denying fertilization that would be similar to denying of reproduction to pet dogs or cats.
Situations happening in industrial farming are not universal. Specifically about the egg thing I go out of my way to buy eggs that are classified in a way that prove that the chicken are not in that conditions of living their whole life in a small cage.
I only buy eggs from a local farmer and they have their chicken run around in a rather large arrea
Isn’t this just vegetarianism at that point
No processed foods, true vegans eat crude oil and raw uranium for their daily calorie intake
That’s a crude joke
The definition from the vegan society is:
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
Is climate change cruel to animals? It’s not intentional harm, but it causes suffering. People will weigh that differently based on the ethical framework (deontology - utilitarianism spectrum).
Going on vacation by plane arguably isn’t vegan from a utilitarian perspective. Deontologists might still see it as vegan.
If someone needs to drive a car and can’t afford an EV, it’s not practical to avoid fossil fuels in this case. So that would be vegan either way.
I think the “avoiding as far as possible and practicable” principle also makes a lot of sense for the use of fossil fuels by environmentalists.
Wouldn’t this mean that if someone derives a sufficient number of utils from eating meat (enough that not eating it would be “impractical”), then eating meat is vegan?
If someone is literally starving and there’s only meat available, it can be argued that it would be vegan to eat it in that situation.
No, I mean like…
Suppose where you live and where you work are fixed. You can drive and murder animals via climate change. Or you can ride your bike. But driving takes 30 min, and riding your bike takes 2 h. There is nothing dangerous or otherwise bad about riding your bike - it just takes an extra 3 h out of your day that you’d rather spend playing video games. As per the above definition, you can murder animals via climate change because it is “impractical” (ie, unpleasant because you are impatient) to ride your bike, and still call yourself a vegan.
Now, a new scenario. Suppose you are avoiding driving and are riding your bike 2h each way to get to work. But on the way to and from work, you pass a McD’s. Every time you pass it, your mouth waters. You are hungry. You really like the taste of their animal products. And the taste of a quarter pounder with cheese fills you with memories of a happy childhood. You want it so much, in fact, that not stopping there to buy a hamburger creates twice as much negative utility for you as biking instead of driving - ie, is twice as inconvenient to avoid eating a hamburger. Given this scenario and the above definition, eating hamburgers is vegan if you like them enough.
it’s utilitarian, but not vegan
They’re pretty much all made of plant matter, but that’s irrelevant. What makes it vegan or not is whether you cause harm to the fauna by using it and creating demand for it.
So is it?
depends on the person, their motivation, environment, and lifestyle choices i guess. you could argue either way.
No it should be a binary thing either yes or no.
why? its not like veganism is a mandated institution, it’s merely a set of moral guidelines and perspectives.
edit: what do you think, is it vegan?
Because saying “it depends on the individual” doesnt give us an interesting conversation.
if op cared about conversation there are many ways to go about that, asking what kind of perspective leads to an intertwining (or lack thereof) of veganism and a boycott of the fossil fuels industry, or op could have replied to my question in the edit explaining where the post idea came from and their own views on how the two things relate.
unfortunately, i think the cum fart just wanted an excuse to ‘call out’ vegans in this post they made a hour or two after this one.
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Coal is made from plants.
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Oil is made from plankton and algae.
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Natural gas is made from microorganisms.
I believe all three have a small chance of also being made from an animal. But I wasn’t able to verify that part.
I mean, even if they do contain animal, does it matter? Are vegans not allowed to pick up old buffalo skulls from the ground from buffalo which died of natural causes?
A large part of plankton consists of animals like crustaceans and jellyfish (zooplankton). Though IDK if that was also true back when the current oil deposits were formed.
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No, they release harmful gases into the air which harm animals.
If you mean carbon dioxide, then I hate to tell you, but you make that as well. You existing isn’t vegan.
But they are also an animal. So they can’t kill themselves, since that also wouldn’t be vegan.
For millions of years oxygen was a toxic and corrosive pollutant building up.
Yeah and it was a mass extinction because of plants. Vegans want to save us from this fate by eating them all!
Doing gods work
Did I ever say it was?
So do I.
