The problem is that modern cars are shitty. It doesn’t matter if it’s a petrol, diesel or electric car. If I can’t repair it myself, it’s a poor quality car. The fact that you might need specialized paywalled software to remove error codes after fixing the car is just awful.
Most people I’ve spoken with that claim that they don’t like electric cars eventually agree that they don’t like modern cars. Mainly due to how closed everything is.
Yeah, vendo lock in is what has stopped me from purchasing a BYD seal
Repairing doesn’t even really apply to evs. It’s not like you bust out a wrench to fix your tv.
It does. Brakes, suspension. Lights wipers window motors etc, all that shit breaks.
And when I need a fucking dealer computer to “unlock” it to fix my brakes or a broken window motor, fuck that shit.
If a TV cost $60k, I’d bust out a wrench to fix it. It’s usually a blown capacitor that costs pennies to fix.
CRTs are easily repairable with like 3 tools in most cases. Many are 30 years old and never been maintained properly still going. Flat screens are Another example of modern tech being shit for longevity and repairability.
EVs still have a ton of shit that will invariably break and need repairing/replacement at some point. A huge amount stuff I’ve had to fix on my cars had nothing to do with the engine/transmission and are universal on road vehicles: Brakes, rust, wipers, plastic in direct sunlight, digital displays, head lights, dozens of belts and motors that run on tracks, mechanical doors, AC.
Most of which can be repaired with a stop at parts store and a couple of common tools IF the manufacturer hasn’t locked it behind some bullshit security bolt or a lockout chip.
Doesn’t the door opening mechanisms on Tesla’s famously break all of the time?
No.
- historically there were reliability issues with the self-presenting handles on model s and model x, which they redesigned, but now are stopping production of
- by far the most produced are their model 3 and y, which are NOT self-presenting. You press in one side for the other side to pop out so this has never been an issue
Make it affordable and I’ll buy one tomorrow.
Let’s talk VW specific. I would absolutely love an ID.Buzz. But you made the fucking thing SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.
Did VW ever implement one pedal drive? Total non starter for me a few years ago (got a volvo instead).
There’s B mode that will aggressively regenerate, but nowhere close to one pedal. Although I’ve found myself using the adaptive cruise control for no pedal drive
One pedal plus adaptive CC is going to blow your mind. I love it!
One pedal driving is coming this fall in MY2027. I’ve never had it, so driving in B mode feels good enough to me.
NICE! True one pedal is my favorite and I can’t wait for you to also have it too.
They still have a break pedal, if that is what you mean.
Naw one pedal drive is this neat EV feature you can drive with where if you take your foot off the accelerator the car starts to full regentl brake until it stops. Once you use it in a city you realize how much easier a car is to operate when you dont need to swap between pedals a ton. Its also nice because when you do need an aggressive brake, the time moving from pedals has already initiated a deceleration leading to a faster slow down.
Ah that. I like that, as an optional feature
that’s fair. I love that my car ties it to the user profile so when others need to drive I can preserve my settings.
Heh, my understanding is that they are affordable, assuming you’re buying Chinese cars and your country hasn’t levied absurd tariffs on that one country in particular.
ID Buzzes have been selling for $15-20K under MSRP this year. My wife and I never expected to get one after they announced their pricing, but then $15K off a fully optioned one won us over. We grew tired of waiting on Honda to update their Odyssey. We’d been hauling 3 kids in our Accord Hybrid for 3.5 years and would have loved to drive an Odyssey hybrid. I did not want to buy a van with a V6 gas guzzler sporting less tech than my 9 year old Accord.
They were 80k near me. Insane. However, the Buzz is kind of an outlier - a non-luxury EV at luxury price.
The car is also unnecessarily big, it feels like
Edit: I misunderstood
The Buzz is a van, it’s meant to be big so you can put stuff in it. It’s actually too small for my liking as it’s too low to fit my dirt bike in without a struggle and too short for a 1200x2400 sheet of ply/metal/whatever (my Transporter fits both of these nicely though).
Oh I thought it’s e.g. ID.3 ID.4, mistook “buzz” for “*”
Yeah shame. Take out all the tech bullshit I dont want and I bet that number gets cut nearly in half. Abs, efi, maybe airbags if you want.
We can make simple vehicles. They just refuse to. Becuase simple won’t break and be unrepairable by the end user. Gotta jeep those stealerships in business with proprietary tools.
In short, with late stage capitalism you will never have a good car again.
I’m certain airbags are a legal requirement.
Oh they are. Cameras and screens inside your car are legal requirements too. Shit the government does to state its legal or illegal is often not good.
I guess what I’m trying to say is there is a difference simplifying in an acceptable manner (perhaps backup cameras don’t need to be mandated) and doing so in an unsafe manner; I don’t think making seatbelts, airbags, or anti-lock brakes optional in the name of “simplicity” is a good idea.
Depending on how long ago you define as the period we had “good” cars, it might be an order of magnitude less safe. It’s hard to separate the unnecessary tech with things that have made cars exponentially safer over the past few decades.
I too wish for vehicles that are more simple, but let’s not toss the “safety” baby out with the “upgrades” bathwater.
Agree.
For me, 2004 was peak car. Safe enough , had abs and efi, still somewhat lightweight and easy to work on, etc.
I think depending on the model, peak is somewhere about 2005 (I’d consider your 2004 right in there) to about 2015. The inclusion of CarPlay was a big plus.
My next car will likely be a mid-teens Golf GTI. It may not be the best in any one category (efficiency, practicality, depreciation, safety, fun, repairability, etc) but it scores high in all of them.
Those are good cars!
I have zero interest in screens or media in cars. Usually car stereo systems suck, at least in cars I enjoy driving which are usually sporty (road noise, tire noise etc). I have a listening setup at home for actually enjoying music. If i want a podcast on a long drive, a cheapo stereo is just fine.
Unfortunately, software defined vehicle is cheaper to build, then you get all the fancy stuff “for free”. One of the many problems legacy manufacturers have is the extra miles of wiring they need to install, mostly manual labor
Yeah, very unfortunate!
I wanted a Ferrari, but they made the fucking thing 6 HUNDRED AND 40 THOUSAND DOLLARS.
I’m not paying $640k for that thing for other reasons. What the hell was Ferrari thinking? Are they trying to make the ugliest Ferrari ever so they can say “see, nobody wants and EV”?
Hey man you posted a picture of a Nissan leaf by mistake. Maybe check the post…
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Is that some kind of gotcha or something?
The average car buyer does not want to buy an expensive EV just to have an EV and will buy a $40k Toyota Sienna before they buy a $60k VW ID.Buzz.
Pretty easy to grasp…It’s not rocket surgery. Make affordable EVs and not upmarket EVs and people will buy them. China figured that out.
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Even assuming those numbers are accurate it’s irrelevant. If I don’t have $60,000 then I can’t buy a $60,000 car even if it would be a sound investment over the long run.
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The used market isn’t much better. I can’t afford a $26,000 EV with 100k miles on it. That’s insane.
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sounds like you want a free car.
Dude I’m only using your numbers.
$40k and $60k are YOUR numbers. I subtracted YOUR numbers to get 20k.
I’d like to preface all of the following with something: a vehicle should account for no more than 10% of a household user’s budget, some say up to 15% but most of the literature I’ve seen puts it at or under 10% to maintain fiscal responsibility. That’s monthly ofc, and puts the total budget somewhere around $1,200-1,400 on most of these cars
So how many people do you know who make between $120,000-140,000 per driver?
Some of us do, most of us don’t
I know plenty of people who cannot and or will not for various reasons ever make that much in their lifetimes
Let’s say a 19 year old getting their first car without support. You think they can afford a 60k car? Hell even a 40k? At +6% apr? They still need a car and not all of us have or had parents to help us foot that bill
How about even a used one ran into the dirt at 20-25k to “establish credit”? Think that’s a good idea either for someone like that? Its a terrible one
Further, if literally anything goes wrong with the battery before it’s paid off but out of warranty… Then what? File bankruptcy at 20-25? Take the credit hit and be unable to buy another vehicle or, or get student loans, or be able to get a mortgage because your credit is shot?
No matter if the payback even makes sense we have prime examples that the economy is down right hostile to EV owners with the EV tax road hike increases forcing EV users to pay up to 10x road “gas” tax equivalents of what petrol does in the US regardless if they drive 1,000 miles in a year or 40,000
Plain and simple, all commuter/work vehicles are not worth $40,000-60,000. They are grossly overpriced and have been since at least 2020
The $70,000 GMC EV work truck trim with 450 miles of range? That’s worth $45,000 max. The Tesla model 3 dual motor (which I paid $60,000 for new in 2023 btw) are worth $35,000 max brand new top trim model and has never been worth more than that despite the insane market gauntlet we’ve been run through
The person you are responding to is not even slightly wrong
Vehicles are grossly overpriced.
Front loading potential savings is not an acceptable practice in an economy where people do not have the option to go without a vehicle to function. Prices needs to crater. Companies need to be making any profits they do make off the back of quantity sold, and off government subsidies and cutting out middle men not massive margins per lesser quantities of vehicles at our expense, because as things stand they’re making their margins off of government bailouts anyways and consumers are perpetually the ones getting bent since taxes are our money and these incompetents are increasingly demanding more and more of it
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I didnt write it 🙃
VTT with a bit of editing removing punctuation and breaking up blocks of text
LLMs are useful for some things
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That extra $20k is for the EV’s battery.
People need to stop quoting Elon Musk. That was true in 2012. Buzz battery is 90kwhr, the cost of batteries is now $120/kWh. So the whole pack costs $11k. Funny how with ICE now one quotes the cost of a catalytic system or how much mining goes on for the platinum and rhodium in cats. ID Buzz is overpriced, plus it’s not even good. It’s a small van.
You have a rough point, but a $20k delta is too much. Thankfully, the comparison is between a “special” car and a boring workhorse, so the price delta isn’t reflective of the practical choices. 7-passenger PV5 looks to be about $50k, so less than $10k delta between a Sienna and a comparable EV van. Still a pretty big gap, especially to take up front, but closer to reasonable given your reasons. We are seeing the gap close more aggressively in the 5-passenger segment, but 3-row still has been focused on EV only for ‘premium’ experience.
Lack of noise and emissions, instant torque control, and the possibility to charge at home are indeed premium experiences. A lot of ICE pushers are trying to get a free lunch here.
Sure, those are premium things, but don’t actually drive the manufacturer’s cost as those come mostly for free.
So it drives bigger margin for them instead, but at the expense of people perceiving EV as somehow fundamentally too expensive.
They’re inherent in the battery system. The manufacturer’s costs are in the battery. Propulsion, silence, no-emissions, instant torque, and home charging are the features we get with a battery whether we like it or not (no downside really). Price-wise, there is no point in talking about them separately. ICE pushers apparently forget the other features of the package. Manufactures must obviously charge a price for the package.
China figured that out.
This isn’t an issue with electric vehicles its an issue with EV’s from traditional ICE based car companies, and the governments refusal to subsidize their purchase or the companies that manufacture them.
Sure, they have to buy their batteries from China, who probably enjoys that profit margin. Traditional ICE based car companies dug their own graves by insisting on staying at the starting line for 20 years, pushing their ICE garbage instead of supporting local refinining.
Traditional ICE based car companies dug their own graves by insisting on staying at the starting line for 20 years, pushing their ICE garbage instead of supporting local refinining.
Nope. Joe Biden spent billions on battery valley to make batteries in the USA, then you idiots re-elected Trump and he put your asses back in the stone age. That’s why Detroit is fucked. Then, he tariffed any imported batteries.
Traditional ICE based car companies dug their own graves by insisting on staying at the starting line for 20 years
Good thing we re-elected an administration that will encourage them to keep standing at the starting line, scratching their butts, watching the race on tv
I calculated this. Came out to somewhwre under $5k to drive my Golf 4 for like 8 years including the buying price. But yea whatever floats your electric boat big dog.
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My wife’s plug-in hybrid charging (at home) costs the same as fuel for an ICE vehicle that gets 60mpg running 87 octane. Electricity is cheaper, but it’s also not free.
you might want to re-check your math.
Off-peak electricity rate in my area is around $0.14/kWh. One full charge is about 14 kWh, $1.96. This can go about 30mi max, for $0.065/mi.
My 300cc bike getting 60 mpg at a cost of $4.20/gal comes out to $0.07/mi.
Did I miss something?
Wait until you factor in replacing the entire battery pack of an EV in 10 years for $10k…
What are you driving that gets 60 MPG?
A 300cc motorcycle
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Not where I live. All those charges for the use of their electricity here. I definitely do not have space to set up my own personal nuclear reactor on my patio. Not even sure I could scavenge enough free materials to build it, even if I found free designs/blueprints.
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I think that’s entirely possible depending on where they live and how much they drive. I have a spreadsheet with my gas spending, and I’ve spent around $12k on gas since 2016. That includes some cross-country road trips, and taking my car to the race track, where it can burn 3 tanks in a day…
For the last 6 years or so, I’ve only spent $3k in gas on my daily, since I don’t have to go far and work remotely now. Gas prices in the PNW aren’t exactly the cheapest either.
Yea it’s really funny how he doesn’t believe that covers my gas when I drive a wittle 1.4 petrol every now and then between cities.
I literally use a tank in like 3-4 months probably. Now even less, since I work remote.
I never track it either… If that weren’t obvious lol. I also fixed nearly everything on it so it should in theory be more efficient than your average broken down one.
Still, funny asf.
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As if you bloody know how much and how I drive lol, funny internet man.
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you’re trying to use your case as representing most people
You interpreting what I said in that way is not my issue
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What does this headline even mean?
Are electric horses better than gas powered horses or what?
Yeah, it’s phrased in a weird way.
He is saying that when cars were becoming popular, lots of people insisted that horses were better. Over time, basically everyone realized that cars are better.
Now electric cars are becoming popular, although lots of people insists that ICE cars are better.
He is saying that over time, people against electric cars will change their mind, just like the horse-people did.
Cars started becoming popular around 1885, and people started to change their mind (specifically because the vehicles improved massively, not just because they were wrong initially) in maybe 1910?
Tesla made them popular in what? 2017? so we should see enough improvements for widespread adoption by 2040
Henry Ford once said somethimg like: if i had asked people what theh wanted, they would’ve said faster horses.
Electric engines are better than horses
Electric horses are better than engines
Even the Empire knows that!
Hell yeah, electric horses!
It’s a simple analogy. Cars are horses but cars are also cars. And of course cars are better than horses.
I’m only interested when the vehicles are simple and affordable and the charging stations are fast and ubiquitous.
Which will be 20 years.
People seem to forget gas cars took 50+ years to become widely adopted. They were not really accessible to the middle and lower classes until after WW2.
For some reason people here just want to scream and moan and browbeat anyone who doesn’t want to buy an EV today, when they are unaffordable, inconvenient, and make zero sense unless all you do is commute to work and run local errands. Lots of vehicles are used for different purposes.
I wouldn’t call any car affordable these days so that’s a moot point. The rest of your description of EVs is not accurate at all. I drive an EV long distances across rural Montana regularly. If it works for me I can guarantee it would work wherever you are.
I’m not you. There are no ev charging stations in rural areas where I go. it’s just woods.
My EV has over 300 mile range: most people aren’t going that far into the woods
Unless you live in Siberia or parts of Africa then I am 100% confident that rural Montana is more sparsely populated with both people and EV infrastructure than wherever you are. I can make it work. If you can’t you either haven’t tried and are therefore only speculating or you don’t want to. Either way, that’s a you problem
You can already drive cross country in almost any EV. There are more charging stations in my area than there are gas station.
Mechanically, EVs are very simple. Cost and “complexity” (app, touchscreens, etc) are rampant in ICE cars today as well, so buying one of those won’t really make a difference there either.
Yea I’m all for simplicity. But honestly a modern EV is probably LESS complex than a modern ice. They all have the same complexities with stupid computers for every component (body control modules, “infotainment” crap, hell vw likes to have a module in each door and each seat to controll door locks windows etc) but Ice also had complications of an engine. I love gas engines I’m a gear head, but let me be the first to tell u that there’s a LOT less going on in an electric drivetrain than a gasser. Sure the control modules for evs are computers in of themselves, but a modern auto drivetrain has a computer for the engine and a sperate computer for / in the transmission, plus they both have computers for abs/tc and interior crap and cameras etc. My hurdle to adopting electric is their so goddamned expensive that they can’t outweigh oil, gas, and service costs yet. (If you disagree about that, that’s another conversation. I drive sub 3k$ cars when I have to but mainly ride motorcycles and do my own work so no there isn’t a way to get around cheaper in an EV than an ice for me yet)
My hurdle to adopting electric is their so goddamned expensive that they can’t outweigh oil, gas, and service costs yet.
Yeah, that is the real issue with EVs, and probably the only complaint I’ve seen in all these comments that is valid.
It shocks people when I tell them this, but I did NOT buy an EV to save money. In most situations, buying a new (to you) car will cost you more than fixing the old car many times over. So I’m not shocked that I’m paying more for the EV. I’m more shocked that with the insane cost of gas lately, my EV is getting close to breaking even on monthly driving cost compared to my partner’s civic.
I think it’s funny that the complaint people bring up in these kinds of threads; that EVs aren’t that “green”, that they are unreliable, that charging is inconvenient, or that they aren’t practical… is completely wrong, and people who have EVs love them because they are exactly the opposite of that.
Will the other reason that I can’t get and EV is because I have no way of charging it at home so I’d be 100% reliant on public charges and they cost a fortune because they overcharge for the electricity.
I did the math for my EV. Even the expensive fast charging station near me came out to be only about 25% of the cost my old ICE car would get for gas on a per mile basis. The slower level 2 chargers typically cost substantially less than that, but are really only worth it if you were going to park in a lot that had them anyway.
is completely wrong
is it?
Tesla sells the least reliable vehicles you can buy right now.
and
They also have the highest crash rate.
And
The newer models have the battery pack glued into the frame, cannot be replaced, just junked. All models have a cast aluminum frame that is brittle in crashes and cannot be repaired, leading to more write-offs, more junk.
Wow… Sounds like one brand of cars known for having QC problems has QC problems.
Tesla making unreliable cars doesn’t mean that EV is an inherently unreliable technology.
People complain about hybrids because they add more parts and complexity, which people assume makes them less reliable. Yet Toyota hybrids are consistently rated as among the most reliable vehicles you can buy.
My point is that the brands and their QC standards are really important.
The module in each door is actually a cost saving - All you gotta send to the door is canbus/linbus, power, ground and an optical cable from the headunit for (potentially) an in-door amplifier.
What it is is a fucking headache I put a Passat module in a Jetta then the door lock button operated the window lmfao. Thankfully they don’t really go bad often !
The simple bit is already done, EVs require way less upkeep. The affordable bit is done as well, those ones are just banned to “protect domestic auto markets” (depending on where in the world you live).
The fast ubiquitous charging is still very location dependent. In CA I have no issue finding chargers on roadtrips. I imagine TX is not the same. If you happen to have access to a charger at home or work then 99% of your problems are solved.
Seriously, I’m not even in California and charging is a solved issue
- charge at home is half the price of gas and the car is always ready to go
- free charging at work is icing on the cake
- trip charger in every direction.
Limited by my road trips, I can tell you that everywhere between Virginia and Boston has convenient trip chargers …… and I never bothered looking at anything other than tesla
Even only the north east and California had trip chargers, that’s a population close to 100M. And most decent sized cities everywhere have trip chargers - we’re covered for at least half the population, and probably much much more
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Same. I don’t care about the range or anything. I want an EV to spend less money (that’s what they say) but:
- I can’t afford one right now, ICE vehicles are way cheaper out of the box
- there are no chargers where I live
Make it illegal to include touch screens, tracking, no buttons and no handles. Then I’ll consider getting a loan for one 🤷♂️
That’s what I think. EVs aren’t functionally equivalent to ICE cars yet - most of them can’t go as far between fillups, and they take longer to fill up. Those are steadily improving. But the cost benefits are there. Back in 2013 when I bought my Leaf I went from spending $1800/year on gas to $300/year on electricity, and in 12 years my only maintenance costs were windshield wiper blades and a set of tires - which I would have needed with a gas car. But no oil changes, tuneups, no filters, belts or hoses, no spark plugs. No radiator problems, starter problems, pump replacements. I mean it’s almost like not having a car at all, except you have a car.
They say this whilst trying their best to make EVs the printers of the car industry. Update? The car stops and bricks itself for the duration of it. Want basic features? You have to pay a monthly subscription for the car you already payed for. Need it repaired? Have to bring it to a dealership with criminal prices because every part is serialized and they have you by the balls. Need a new battery after it kicks the bucket in 4-5 years? Expect to pay $10-20k for a new one. Oh and of course the center terminal/tablet is now crucial for the cars function, so anytime that malfunction it bricks itself again. Oh and it will always track and spy on you with GPS and onboard cameras and microphones.
People aren’t going to realize EV’s are better until the can actually afford one.
Also, maybe one day America will get their heads out of their ass and realize that public transportation is better EV’s.
I have no doubts about electric cars being nice or “the future”, but the price of these things is still a problem.
A (reasonably) new one with the range I need (~400km+) costs way more than I care to spend. That is partly because batteries still cost too much, but also very much because they still have a tendancy to gatekeep larger range figures for use in luxury cars.
And getting older second hand is still too much a questionmark in terms of how much of a chance there be you’ll end up having to fork over big for a new battery or motor and/or write it off prematurely.
Another problem is that I also have no way to charge it at home and would be fully at the mercy of public charging infrastructure. And generally speaking as a taller man, I feel some of them can also be quite lacking in terms of interior space.
Why do you need 400km+ range? Is this for a daily/weekly need or a once in a quarter holiday trip style need?
This is the right question - people who have never owned an EV vastly overestimate the range they’ll need, almost always.
Usually 200-300km is good enough range for most ppl on US. For other countries, I’ve found 150km to be more than sufficient.
Overnight charging from a heater outlet is usually sufficient for normal daily use.
Weekends usually add 100-200 km range easily in case the daily usage is slightly higher than daily overnight charge.
Charging at office is also an increasingly possible option.
For me personally is because I don’t have property to charge overnight.
And I’m in a country where China is flooding their EVs in the market.
Edit: to clarify, I am convinced with EV. I’ve been drinking the big oil koolaid for too long and glad I stopped. Better late than never.
Tbf I haven’t really done my research for local charging stations and their prices. Also the fa t that even the market here being flooded with cheap Chinese EVs, it is still more than I can responsibly afford. So for now I keep maintaining my current petrol car.
Overnight charging is really critical to EV success. I can see why not having that would make it painful
What mostly makes this problematic is that there still aren’t enough public charging spots out in the wild to counter this handicap, people occupy those that are available for way too long and they charge quite a bit more for the kwh then you’d have to fork over at home. Especially when you can smart charge with variable rates and/or leverage solar panels.
I live in vertically built op neighbourhood from the 1950’s so charging on my own meter, much like having things like solar panels, won’t ever be a thing.
I do not believe this makes owning electric cars impossible persé, but the the public infrastructure is also lacking, and they won’t expand this without people buying more electric cars. But people aren’t buying electric cars because they can’t charge. Nobody here can charge at home, even if we do have plenty of people that have the income bracket to drive electric, so it has to come from public availablity.
Progress has been extremely slow. Don’t let my origional comment take away from the fact i’m 100 percent pro electric, I think it’s cool as hell, but there’s still plenty of situations where they are more than a little inconvenient. Having long range models here would at least reduce the frequency at which you’d need to charge.
On a side note, take a look at balcony solar. It’s quite popular in a lot of places to offset your electricity usage
Yeah, thanks for the tip. I’m at least in passing aware of these solutions, but my problems aren’t just concentrated around not owning a roof.
I also have detached garden house in my yard that I could technically quite easily have 4 or 6 solar panels on, but the problem I have at yard level is that I only have sun to where that garden house is till maybe 3pm on ideal days before it disappears behind the apartment building I live in. Any balcony attached panels would stop receiving direct sun after 1pm or so.
And even the sun we do have is greatly handicapped by copious amounts of surrounding vegetation. To the point I can’t even really get my lawn to grow properly.
It’s a lovely yard because it’s kind of like having private park in the middle of a big (for my country’s standards) city and because we are surrounded by big buildings it’s basicly also very quiet, but that does ofcourse come with it’s limitations.
That is what i need to do a return trip on the longest distance I do on a fairly regular basis and what the car would be mostly used for. (I have moved away from most of my family.)
I can’t trust public chargers to be available at the destination. People still have a tendency to not move their car after charging and there’s still a general shortage of them.
With the current charger technology, there are very few people who would actually need that kind of a range: you basically have to live in extremely rural areas (so there are no fast chargers anywhere), you need to drive multiple hours a day, and you don’t have any access to charging at home or at work.
In almost any other situation even on a long trip your bladder, stomach or back will stop you every few hours to take a break, which is enough time for a fast charger to top you back up to the next stop.
There’s already so many ev cars in scrap yards due to being mechanically totaled from dead batteries it’s not worth buying one unless you plan to lease or budget for a new battery/motor after the warranty is out. ICE cars at the price of EV cars still last way longer, and can be maintained to continue running without a mandatory motor replacement after a certain number of miles/hours.
It takes a really, really long time for EV batteries to “die.” They absolutely degrade and lose range over time, but you should still be getting significant usable mileage out of them. This sounds like unfounded propaganda to me.
Not top mention that the batteries can be recycled at end of life to be made into new batteries for other cars.
Theoretically yes, although right now doing so is more expensive than just mining fresh materials for the most part 😅
Source?
Loljk no u don’t
Can they make real cars and not stupid egg crossovers?
I want the old 3-door hatchbacks to come back. Like how the civic hatchback used to be.
Smol car with a PHAT ASS.
yup. i love my EV but my dream would be a hatchback EV. fucking US car manufacturers have brainwashed everyone to think they need an EV of some sort. yay rugged individualism.
Brainwashed everyone to think they need an EV of some sort.
I think Americans in rural areas (and really really spread out suburban areas) need them due to lackluster infrastructure. (Yes there are better fixes but they take more time.)
I also wouldn’t be shocked if the convenience added to even rural Europeans might be worth it, though anyone in a city is just silly for owning a car.
For everyone else, if you count ebikes/mopeds/rickshaws, everyone having some sort of EV isn’t too crazy.
Love my 14-year-old civic but I hope that by the time it dies my BBSHD equipped bike is enough.
I’m so damn sick of ugly ass crossovers.
People are only buying crossovers. Don’t blame car companies for making cars people buy.
If you only make crossovers, people will omly buy crossovers. People still buy accords, civics and sentras. Hyundai and Kia still make nice sedans and people still buy them.
As for EV sedans, the id7 is the only cheapish electric one I can think but isn’t sold in the US. (I don’t know about other evs sold in Canada).
If there was an ev civic, people would buy them.
I’d argue that crossovers are the “default” type of car now. They really are just hatch/wagon cars with some different styling and typically a slightly higher suspension.
Also: I’m glad people here are saying “crossover” rather than “SUV”. They are not the same.
They have become visually indistinguishable, though.
car manufacturers are the ones who made people want SUVs/crossovers in the first place.
The only problem I’ve had with the EVs we’ve been leasing for 5 years now, is unsolicited criticism from EV haters. They seem to ignore the fact that I’ve been driving various diesel and petrol vehicles for decades. If my own lived experience of EVs was less rewarding than my previous ICE ownership I’d switch back. It’s not like a football team that I’m wedded to. They’re just generally better cars in terms of driving, torque, maintenance, cost to run and basically every metric that matters to me as a driver. Quite why that annoys people who in many cases have never even been behind the wheel of one is beyond me.
And they won’t need to cheat their emissions tests with evs
Also article quotes an executive but no labor leaders
Only inbreds hate EVs.
Normal people simply hate tesla.
Thats absolutley true, but I live in an apartment complex that wont even fix the elevators, there’s no way in hell I’d ever be able to charge at home and for that reason… I can never have an EV.
It also has the added benefit of watching you all the time!
Other than that EVs are pretty dope.
Not exclusive to EVs though
You can barely get an EV old enough not to do it, if at all. You can easily get an ICE old though though
But yes, it’s all new cars.
Sure, but that’s still a stupid complaint though. No vehicle has to spy on you, people only allow cars to spy on them. The thing is, you’re an adult, you know how duct tape and screwdrivers work. If there’s some offending camera, just pull it out or cover it up. If you’re worried about it phoning home over a wireless connection, remove the wireless antenna. No car will prevent you from driving because an internal camera was disabled.
The electric motor is watching you?
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