Summary

A new Innofact poll shows 55% of Germans support returning to nuclear power, a divisive issue influencing coalition talks between the CDU/CSU and SPD.

While 36% oppose the shift, support is strongest among men and in southern and eastern Germany.

About 22% favor restarting recently closed reactors; 32% support building new ones.

Despite nuclear support, 57% still back investment in renewables. The CDU/CSU is exploring feasibility, but the SPD and Greens remain firmly against reversing the nuclear phase-out, citing stability and past policy shifts.

  • ssillyssadass@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    54
    arrow-down
    49
    ·
    20 hours ago

    There’s no good reason to be against nuclear power. It’s green, it’s safe, it’s incredibly efficient, the fuel is virtually infinite, and the waste can be processed in a million different ways to make it not dangerous.

    • lumony@lemmings.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 hours ago

      There’s no good reason to be against nuclear power.

      Ahh, you gotta keep in mind: useful idiots.

    • Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      7 hours ago

      It’s incredibly expensive when all costs over the entire construction period, operating period, dismantling period and storage period for nuclear waste are taken into account.

    • yyprum@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      12 hours ago

      I’m not the kind to hate on nuclear power itself, but let’s not assume it’s perfect either. There are good reasons against nuclear power, its just not the usual reasons raised by people.

      The cost and time effort needed for building one plant is one drawback.

      The fact that you can’t say “let’s turn off the nuclear reactor now that we have enough renewables and later today we start it again when the sunlight is over”. It’s a terrible energy source to supply for extra demand needed without perfect planning.

      Nowadays, nuclear is not so worth it in general, not because of fearmongering about the dangers (an old plant badly upkept is a danger, independent of what energy source you use, but specially for nuclear plants). Ideally a combination of different renewables would be best, with some energy storage to be used as backup, plus proper sharing of the resources between different places. There’s always sun somewhere, there’s always wind somewhere, …

      • lumony@lemmings.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 hours ago

        It’s not perfect, but to forego nuclear energy while still burning fossil fuels is retarded.

        • taladar@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          9 minutes ago

          As opposed to thinking we could replace fossil fuels with nuclear power faster than we can replace them with renewables which is obviously a totally sane belief given how large construction projects are going… /s

    • UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      18 hours ago

      It’s more expensive than the alternatives, and comes with additional downsides. There is no good reason to be pro nuclear, unless you need a lot of power for a long time in a tight space. So a ship or a space station for example.

    • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      36
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      19 hours ago

      Even Japan is restarting their reactors

      Solar and wind are great, but major industrialized nations will need some nuclear capacity.

      It’s going to happen sooner or later.

      The question is just about how long we delay it, with extra emissions and economic depression in the mean time.

      • TheTechnician27@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        19 hours ago

        This exactly. You need a reliable source of fuel for the baseline, which is where nuclear energy can supplant fossil fuels instead of or in addition to relying on batteries.

          • 𝙲𝚑𝚊𝚒𝚛𝚖𝚊𝚗 𝙼𝚎𝚘𝚠@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            15
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            13 hours ago

            You’re absolutely correct, and few people realise this. They think “baseline = stable power”, but that’s not what you need. You need a quick and cheap way to scale up production when renewables don’t produce enough. On a sunny, windy day, renewables already produce more than 100% of needs in some countries. At that point, the ‘baseline’ needs to shut down so that this cheap energy can be used instead. The baseline really is a stable base demand, but the supply has to be very flexible instead (due to the relative instability of solar and wind, the cheapest sources available).

            Nuclear reactors can shut down quite quickly these days, but starting them back up is slow. But worse, nuclear is quite expensive, and maintaining a plant in standby mode not producing anything is just not economically feasible. Ergo, nuclear is terrible for a baseline power source (bar any future technological breakthroughs).

    • reddig33@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      36
      arrow-down
      27
      ·
      edit-2
      19 hours ago

      There’s nothing green, cheap, or safe about nuclear power. We’ve had three meltdowns already and two of them have ruined their surrounding environments:

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant

      Mining for fuel ruins the water table:

      A Uranium-Mining Boom Is Sweeping Through Texas (contaminating the water table) https://www.wired.com/story/a-uranium-mining-boom-is-sweeping-through-texas-nuclear-energy/

      Waste disposal, storage, and reprocessing are prohibitively expensive:

      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rethinking-nuclear-fuel-recycling/

      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rethinking-nuclear-fuel-recycling/

      • lumony@lemmings.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 hours ago

        Let’s see here… nuclear meltdowns have damaged the environments around the few plants that have experienced them.

        Burning fossil fuels has damaged our entire planet…

      • BestBouclettes@jlai.lu
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        33
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        edit-2
        19 hours ago

        Now list all the fossil fuels related incidents.

        Nuclear + renewables is the way to go to stop the climate crisis in the foreseeable future.

        • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          8 hours ago

          People really don’t understand that climate change is worse for life on this planet than a million Fukushima accidents.

            • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              2 hours ago

              The “expensive” argument is bollocks.

              It’s not too expensive for China, South Korea, Japan, the USA, France, the UAE, Iran, India, Russia.

              The countries without nuclear will deindustrialize and the countries with nuclear will outcompete them.

              • sexy_peach@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 hours ago

                The countries without nuclear will deindustrialize and the countries with nuclear will outcompete them.

                Where is the evidence for that claim?

                • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  22 minutes ago

                  Germany is the obvious evidence for that claim. Their once great industry is doing really bad due to high energy prices. Which is why even they are second guessing the Energiewende.

                  Despite insane levels of investment in renewables, they are still stuck on gas en lignite and have very high energy prices.

                  Merkel’s bet that Russian gas could always be depended on didn’t work out.

                  • taladar@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    4 minutes ago

                    The sabotage of solar and wind energy by Altmaier during the CDU government has had a bigger impact than the removal of the few percent of power we got from nuclear. Not to mention that nuclear fuel has the exact same problems as fossil fuels in that major sources of nuclear fuel are in Russia.

            • BestBouclettes@jlai.lu
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              7 hours ago

              Wait until you see the price of climate change and not moving away from fossil fuels then

              • sexy_peach@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                7 hours ago

                Wait what I am 100% pro renewables…

                If nuclear somehow were the only option, I would support it. But it’s the worst option.

                • BestBouclettes@jlai.lu
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  5 hours ago

                  Completely moving away from fossil fuels with just renewables is a pipe dream. Nuclear is not a panacea and it has its problems but it’s part of the solution to get rid of fossil fuels entirely.

              • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                6 hours ago

                Ah yes, that’s why we should invest money into an expensive form of energy instead of a cheap one, that will help us displace fossil fuels!

                • lumony@lemmings.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  2 hours ago

                  Hate to break it to you, bud, but energy is already priced according to how expensive it is to provide.

                  It’s not about “this energy source vs. that energy source.” It’s about increasing the supply of available energy.

                  Read a book on energy and you’ll quickly realize that as we produce more energy, we consume more. Right now, our energy needs are not being met even with fossil fuels + nuclear + renewables.

                  • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    1 hour ago

                    Hate to break it to you, but with a limited amount of money you can only increase your generation so much. Choosing a power source that’s less efficient from a monetary perspective means you can displace less fossil fuel.

                    Read a book on mathematics if you don’t believe me.

      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        17 hours ago

        Three Mile Island was a partial meltdown, which may sound close to an actual meltdown, it’s not even close in terms of danger.

        Fukushima failed because the plants were old and not properly upkept. Had they followed the guidelines for keeping the plant maintained, it would not have happened.

        That’s not really the fault of nuclear power.

        Chernobyl was also partially caused by lack of adherence to safety measures, but also faulty plant design.

        I’d say, being generous, only one of those three events says anything about the safety of nuclear power, and even then, we have come a very long way.

        So one event… Ever.

        • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          15 hours ago

          Chernobyl shouldn’t have happened due to safety measures, yet it did. Fukushima shouldn’t have happened, yet it did. The common denominator is human error, but guess who’ll be running any other nuclear power plants? Not beavers.

          • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            22 minutes ago

            Fukushima’s reactors were extremely old, even at the time. We’re not even talking about the same technology. Shit has come a very long way.

            • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 minute ago

              Sure, and the next catastrophe will have some good reason too, yet it will happen due to human error and greed.

            • taladar@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              2 minutes ago

              That must be why you people are suggesting to turn the extremely old German reactors back on that have had limited maintenance under the assumption that they would be turned off for decades now.

        • saimen@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          17 hours ago

          How is a nuclear meltdown not the fault of nuclear power? Of course you can prevent it by being super careful and stuff, but it is inherent to nuclear power that it is super dangerous. What is the worst that can happen with a wind turbine? It falls, that’s it.

          • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            21 minutes ago

            Because the shit they were using in the Fukushima plants was so old that it might as well be completely different technology. Same with Chernobyl.

            People are referencing shit that does not even apply to modern nuclear power.

          • luce [they/she]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            12 hours ago

            if we were to either replace all power on earth with nuclear, or replace all power on earth with wind, more people would die from- idk, falling out of wind turbines- then from deaths due to nuclear.

            Fukushima had a fucking earthquake and a tsunami theiwn at it, AND the company which made it cut corners. It was still, much, much less bad than it could have been and the reactor still partially withstood a lot of damage.

            In the United States at least (and i assume the rest of the world) nuclear energy is so overegulated that many reactors can have meltdowns without spelling disaster for the nearby area. Nuclear caskets (used to transport and store wastes) can withstand fucking missle strikes.

            Im not going to pretend that there arent genuine issues with nuclear, such as cost and construction time(*partially caused by the overegulation), but genuine nuclear disaster has only ever resulted from the worst of human decisions combined with the worst of circumstances. Do i trust humans not to make shitty mistakes? No, not with all this overegulation, but still, even counting Fukushima and Chernobyl, more people die from wind (and especially fossil fuels) then nuclear per terawatt of electricity production.

            • lumony@lemmings.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              2 hours ago

              Thank you for bringing some light to these people living in the dark.

              I swear, some people see an influencer say “nuclear is actually really bad!” and then just take it and run.

              Really puts into perspective how smart the average person in these days. They’re just trying to look good in front of their peers.

    • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      14
      ·
      19 hours ago

      I wouldn’t go so far as to call it “Green” until we have a better way of disposing the waste that doesn’t involve creating new warning signs that can still be read and understood 10,000 years from now. :)

      If it’s still a danger in 5,000 years, that’s not “green”. :)

      Great story on the signage though!

      https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200731-how-to-build-a-nuclear-warning-for-10000-years-time

      • marine_mustang@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        19 hours ago

        I’ve always preferred the IPCC terminology of “low-carbon”. Emphasizes that all power sources have carbon and other emissions at some point in their lifecycle. They also levelize the emissions based on energy produced over the expected lifespan of the power generation station/solar panel/dam/wind turbine/etc, and nuclear power is down there with solar, wind, geo, and hydro. Waste must be dealt with, and the best disposal method is reprocessing so you don’t have to store it.

        Nuclear semiotics is fascinating. I was very excited when I came across the Federal Disposal Field in Fallout 76 and found that Bethesda used the “field of spikes” design.

    • LustyArgonian@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      15 hours ago

      This, it’s also pretty much the ONLY technology we have that can be near carbon neutral over time (mainly releasing carbon in the cement to make the plant, then to a lesser extent, mining to dig up and refine material, and transport of workers and goods).

      The cost associated with nuclear is due to regulation and legal issues and not relating to the cost to build the actual plant itself so much. There are small scale reactors and many options. Yes it should be used wisely but we can’t keep burning fossil fuels.