I came here around the time the rif app shut down, and the general vibe I get from this place is much more negative than when I joined. Is Lemmy growing more toxic or is it just my imagination?
It’s not a Lemmy thing. People (at least here in the States) are feeling anxious and defeated about the state of the world. That shit makes people irritable. Irritable people are prone to lashing out at anything that trips over their last nerve.
My wife works for a nonprofit that focuses on providing services to families with children who have emotional or intellectual needs. She told me she’s witnessed more meltdowns from parents these last 6 months or so than she’s seen in her 15+ years in the field.
I think part of it at least is reaching a critical mass.
Lemmy was definitely a collection of relatively like-minded geeks at the start. Even when we disagreed on issues, we all agreed that we needed to work together to make the community grow.
Now that it’s grown to a respectable size, there are more dissenting opinions as well as less tolerance for dissent; and more to the point, there is space for absolutely vile content that used to get choked out. Now to stop this sort of thing, the ‘old-timers’ are more likely to say "shut the fuck up, sit the fuck down, and behave!!!’ before they can get a solid foot hold.
Meanwhile, the worst of those people are feeling both entitled and persecuted, and shouting their garbage louder than ever.
This happens everywhere that gets to a certain size. I remember when reddit stopped feeling like a secret community and more like a warehouse.
Of course, there are other reasons that people have mentioned below: The world is tired, worn out, and PISSED OFF at the half that disagree with them. The president of the United States has broken every rule of diplomacy, grace, and civility that people tended to follow in social life. Social Media has made it far easier (too easy) to dehumanize people and turn them into a one-dimensional pastiche of their posted opinions.
And we’re facing the destruction of the planet, genocide, and the global resurrection of fascism.
The world is getting worse, I’m afraid. I really wish it wasn’t true and I spent a lot of time emphasizing the good to my mom before she died; but honestly, it’s getting worse.
Check your communities, and what instances they’re on. Not all are created equal. lemmy.ml tends to be pretty wacko unless you’re of their particular ideological alignment, lemmy.world is very very large and thus has a very very large number of obnoxious shitheads compared to other instances. On the other hand, beehaw.org is intentionally and pathologically positive. I also find lemmy.ca quite friendly, though I might be biased.
Can confirm some asshole on .ml is chasing around my comments wasting both our time, isn’t that right mistermodal, you incel loser.
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Lemmy users are much more entrenched ideologically than an average layman. We all have strong opinions and it can get pretty heated. I avoid posting inflammatory posturing if I’m self aware enough. But I’m just as human and fallible as the rest.
And they think the real world is reflective of what we talk about here. It’s truly bizarre. I’m terminally online, unemployed ATM, but I still get there’s an outside world.
Take all the Trump voter hate for example. Do they not truly understand how under and misinformed most Americans are? Watch Mamdami interview Trump voters in NYC. Not ONE was what we picture as MAGA.
Also, since Trump 1.0, people refuse to talk politics. We’re at a party last month and talking about my new, weird, .22 rifle. I started to bring up a thing in the Big Beautiful Bill that was on-topic and the only thing I find decent in it. “NO. We’re not talking politics.” “I’m NOT. I’m talking about one thing I think is cool and will help gun owners.” Jesus. Now we gotta dance on eggshells.
Do they not truly understand how under and misinformed most Americans are?
Um, that’s exactly why we are pissed off at them. It’s easier than ever to be informed yet people act like it’s harder, somehow. Pretty fucking enraging.
In my experience, no one but trumpers refuse to talk politics. And it’s because they want to remain actively ignorant. Can’t have anyone revealing the giant holes in their fucked worldview. You might turn them trans, after all.
i’m on the spectrum and can’t handle political conversations if the other person is being confrontational. this doesn’t/shouldn’t make me a right winger, but would make you assume as much about me.
I was talking about in real life, and with people I know well enough to talk about anything remotely deep. Further, I didn’t say I would be confrontational in all cases.
Yeah, the total destruction of community and third-places is I think the #1 cause of the division of political discourse, but second is that people refuse to engage with other human beings on the topic. They watch TV or browse online, and they get one extremely biased view of the world. They don’t share it with other people where they could get other points of view.
It used to be people would get the paper and talk about it with each other, but that’s taboo now. You take it to an online community who all agree with you. There’s a reason why the infamous Thanksgiving family gathering caused strife. It’s because people were actually having discussions and disagreements. Disagreement is healthy, but people seem allergic to it now.
Disagreement is only healthy if both people are approaching it with the desire to further their understanding
Honestly, I disagree still. That’s the ideal, but even just seeing that there are other opinions held by people you care about is good. If you live in an echo chamber where everyone agrees with you then you think you must be right on everything.
Disagreement with unreasonable people does not change your opinions, it hardens them in the worst way. Also I don’t care about the people making unreasonabke arguments
I think it depends on the situation. I’m not saying to spend time arguing with them. I’m just saying showing them there’s another position that reasonable people they know hold is good. Most people are told the only people who hold a different position than them are crazy people.
I do care about these people, because they vote.
under and misinformed most Americans are
Which is weird, because we are all here. It’s almost like it’s not that hard to find the truth, you just have to be actually invested in finding out what the truth is.
Is malicious ignorance malicious?
Well, many of us are on the spectrum whether that be ADD, ADHD, Asperger’s, or some other form of autism. Helps us to be highly technical and computer savvy, doesn’t help so much with attempting to reframe “right and wrong,” for most of us.
Unfortunately the very entrenchment, ideologically speaking, that these particular “character traits” cause most of us to have, are being celebrated as “immunity to propaganda” in the media. The reality is that we have an innate sense of right and wrong, and that shit can get skewed all over the place in your formative years. The only remedy I have seen for this is the person intentionally exposing themselves to other cultures.
ADD, ADHD, Asperger’s, or some other form of autism
Wouldn’t the latter fixate more on logic & more likely oppose neurotypical nonsense like biases & overdramatic outrage?
This comment seems like an overly simplistic view
I see an attempt to attribute problematic conduct to conditions at least as likely to resist it & not necessarily promoting it.
I’m not sure how much “bias” or “overdramatic outrage” are exclusive to NT people
No one wrote exclusive. I know autists & aspies find precautions around irrational neurotypical tendencies incredibly annoying like walking on eggshells.
Someone more self aware than me!? How dare you! /s
lemmy.world is very very large and thus has a very very large number of obnoxious shitheads
Yeah? Yeah, you think so? Obnoxious? Yeah? You sayin’ there’s obnoxious shitheads round these parts? That what you’re sayin’? Just wanna be clear! Well you’re wrong! Lemmy.World isn’t large at all. The whole fediverse combined isn’t very large! Not like my penis! Can’t believe you said Lemmy.World is full of obnoxious shitheads! Why would you think that? Can I have $20? Your mom gave me $20! Heyyyoooo!!!
Is lemmy.ml is the second largest instance? Or at least rapidly growing? That would explain why it feels this way.
.ml is the instance run by the developers of the Lemmy fediiverse software, and they themselves are tankies. Do with that information what you will.
Do with that information what you will
Hey, some of us made our accounts when this was the Lemmy instance.
o7
Some of us joined much later when the apicalypse happened.
Huh, TIL.
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I see a lot more assholes from .world and .shtjstwrks
.ML peeps are either chill or really cringe depending on how militant they are.
The majority of shit stains I see are from .ml while .world is a close second.
It’s just .works, really.
Hi 👋
.ml stands for Marxist\Lenin afaik. And the mods\admins take it very seriously.
Does it not?
Since they were the first they used to be the biggest, however they are declining.
I wouldn’t call beehaw pathologically positive. They just seem to bee some very nice people that caught to create a community of nice people. It’s not a pathology, it’s a common understanding.
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If you’re following them around, that’s not living rent free in someone’s head, that’s just being weird.
The whole idea of the phrase is the one living rent free is just enjoying their life while the OTHER person obsesses about them.
If you’re the one doing the stalking, it’s the stalkee that’s living rent free in your head.
You weren’t tagged and still showed up to prove OPs point. It’s not rent free when they’re being stalked by a fucking weirdo basement dweller.
I’m browsing all and you guys are telling your daily ghost stories. I have blocked all of the meme communities where you repost stuff from reddit, so most of what comes up is this or world news, and I don’t need to explain its political bent. You have to realize this comes off as very forced and melodramatic to people on some level. Your being completely unable to take a joke is just icing on the cake.
Daily ghost stories? Me posting memes from reddit? You told a joke? The fuck are you on about, lol?
If you’re suggesting that by saying “rent free” in response to someone outing you for stalking them is a joke, then we have very different definitions of what a joke is. It’s akin to a Republican making a dumbass comment and when confronted responding with, “it’s just a joke”.
Also, did you seriously not understand that “you” can be plural and nobody thinks you are posting every single meme on multiple different websites? Can you see straight right now?
You do not have a very strong case for stalking (who, the site itself?) by talking about something you federated with in a public forum. Remember, this is a website the owners willingly hooked up to another. This is like loudly complaining about a business while standing in front of it and acting like one of the customers is stalking you when they say something. It’s hard to believe you would say that sincerely. It’s more like an un-self-aware attempt at manipulation from a child. The internet moderation-attuned desperation to control conversations is palpable. I pity any coworkers you dare to express yourself to.
Do you have any other ways that you would like to describe my saying the words “rent free” as an unforgivable provocation? Let’s see what you come up with this time.
You’re deranged, man. Also wouldn’t he be the one living rent free in your head if you feel the need to check his comments daily? Get a hobby or something.
This is completely delusional. Again, I got here from the All feed. I clicked on this because I was curious what people were framing as “hostility” - clearly you don’t think you are being paranoid and hostile rn, which is extremely funny. You guys failed basic reading comprehension and totally freaked out.
Check your communities, and what instances they’re on. Not all are created equal. lemmy.ml tends to be pretty wacko
“Hey y’all, anyone feeling hostility on Lemmy”
“Yeah, let me tell you what, fuck those fuckers over there. They fucking suck and I hope they rot.”
Like, how do you not immediately block everyone on lemmy.ca after reading this hate?
I also find lemmy.ca quite friendly,
Sure, if you ignore the assholes who pop into other communities to take a colossal shit on them.
The irony of your stupidity and judgement in that post is hilarious.
Bro they just said “tends to be pretty wacko”
That’s like, really mild. You might need to get some thicker skin.
I’m sorry if my post offended you.
Is that what you think happened here?
As the space becomes more popular, the level of social cohesion goes down.
Also, every space on the internet where users talk is now infested with shit chatbots trying to keep poor people angry with each other to prevent us from flaying rich people alive
There has been a noticeable uptick in new rightist accounts lately.
Instead of blocking people, I tag the bad actors in Voyager and have noticed that most of the toxicity comes from the same small group of specific people.
I’ve recently noticed a lot of new accounts which post a whole series of news articles and then get deleted. Notot fake news or conspiracies but mostly reputable sites. No idea what’s going on there.
Sockpuppet accounts selectively posting articles to sway a opinion about a country or person/s?
If they’d post links to hit pieces or sites such as RT maybe.
An example right in this thread
That person is complaining about political axe-grinding seeping into every corner of every community. Yes they used a mild caricature of anti-Trumpism but this isn’t what I’d call a “rightist.” Although I am on the left, politically, I frequently argue with people here who are even further to the left. I don’t think chanting about seizing the means of production is… productive, and I say so. This probably makes me a “rightist account” in some people’s eyes. I’m also a bootlicker because I don’t advocate for lining up all CEOs in front of a firing squad.
It’s clear if you look at their other comments.
Actually yeah it just clicked for me what “TDS” is. I guess I didn’t have to go further than this very comment. Trump Derangement Syndrome is more than a mild caricature - it’s a codified partisan dismissal of all Trump criticism. Anyone who uses the term unironically is a Trumper.
I withdraw my objection.
This is actually usually the case
Facism is making the people that would normally be reasonable get really emotional and people love to lash out anonymously.
I haven’t noticed much, but I do have a lot of people blocked…
The most important thing for me is that the amount of truly thoughtful comments I’ve seen is higher than on any other platform I use.
And discourse is generally more respectful. Disagreements are handled in a constructive manner at a much higher rate than on any other platform I have used.
Yeah, it’s nice to be able to have actually constructive discussions with people I don’t agree with. That’s rare on the internet.
I’ve blocked a few, makes a huge difference.
No, fuck you
/j
Fuck off /s
Go fuck yourself!
You kiss ya mother wit that mouf!?
I kiss yours
I put on my robe and wizard hat!
no I kiss yours.
While Lemmy might be getting a larger variety of personalities, some of them being jerks, I still find it a far more pleasant place to be than reddit.
Yea the shitposting has steadily increased. That is probably to be expected on a platform that is also steadily increasing.
However please don’t let the trolls think they turn this into the failure that is now Reddit.
Instead just call out the bullshit for what it is and carry on.
Lately? Were you not here during elections when a bunch of kids were accusing everyone of supporting genocide?
“Republicans are fascist”
“I know. That’s why I’m voting Democrat.”
“Democrats aren’t real leftists”
“I’m aware but this isn’t the time for purity politics.”
“Democrats support genocide.”
“And Republicans don’t?”
“Both sides are equally bad so voting is dumb. Don’t vote.”
“Listen, I’ve got friends and family with skin in this game. Both parties fucking suck but you know what really sucks? Having a fucking fascist dimwit who thinks your cousin is subhuman because she was assigned male at birth as your president.”
“So you support genocide? Typical libshit.”
“Ok, then what is your alternative?”
“You would know what it is if you read this dry, arcane bullshit about the reification of contemporary autonomous groups in Third World popular movements.”
“Both sides are equally bad so voting is dumb. Don’t vote.”
The lack of perspective from leftist that say that. Sometimes I’m not sure if they are fed posting.
The lack of perspective from leftist that say that.
Those ain’t leftists. They’re enlightened centrists. I.e., poorly disguised fascists trolling and sowing dissent.
Nailed it! That’s damn near a perfect representation of ever conversation with them.
Were you not here for that same year when anyone who said that democrats shouldn’t be supporting genocide was accused of being a russian chinese trumper republican tankie bot? Oh, and as you accused in your comment just now, a child.
democrats still have no business supporting genocide. It’s shameful and there needs to be accountability. None is forthcoming.
As you can all see, some of them are still around.
I was just saying that there was also hostility and accusations against the anti-genocide left from the pro-genocide center.
Which continues to this day. Not gonna start accepting genocide just because you don’t like hearing that it’s wrong.
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Genocide is not a new thing.Genocide is not a new thing. It’s always been around. And no matter how much people cry about it, it’ll continue regardless. It’s always been around. And no matter how much people cry about it, it’ll continue regardless.
Gloat.
They still are but I’ve learned to love the block list and use it judiciously with people who go beyond good faith arguments of any sort.
That’s most of the people here in political conversations.
I think it’s still like that, actually.
It’s actually quite a bit more tame than it once was.
For sure. I posted content on selfhosted for the first time and got called a “filthy boomer” because it was a screenshot, then people basically told me to grow thicker skin went I complained. Why be better than reddit huh? Guess people just want reddit 2.0
I would actually compare it to Slashdot 3.0, but your sentiment stands.
Look, unless you have functional code included in your comment, or are Richard Stallman, it’s just not worth reading!
“Why can’t everyone just be nice to each other all the time” is what lead us to where we are.
I’m not arguing for being an asshole but when you force everyone to be kind all the time online you get people that are empowered to and motivated to wrap up abhorrent shit in a pleasing package. Racist dog whistles, selfish political propaganda, etc.
I’m not saying that applies here but I DO think it’s important that people are allowed to be assholes online. The internet really started its descent when people started putting bubble wrap on everything.
You’re free to engage or not to.
People have become so used to echo chambers and safe spaces that they forget what things were like when they didn’t exist. And it was better.
You SHOULD be encountering assholes online and encountering opinions you disagree with regularly, because that is the real the world.
Toxic positivity is how you get the worse shit. If you can’t call someone else a fucker and move on then there’s too much protection for the truly deranged.
There’s a large gap between being rude and being Hitler but many places online seem to forget this and treat all forms of negativity as equally extreme and it just results in the worse psychopaths who understand how to mask to have the loudest platform.
Nice to see another person who understands this. They want their social media experience to not make them feel anything negative, and loves their bubble where everyone agrees with them, despite it being a false, curated, forced experience.
When someone writes something they dont agree with, they go into keyboard warrior mode and either tries to put the person down with downvoting and insults, or mod reporting, which is similar to running to dad and crying about someone being bad.
Its like people refuse to grow up today. Argue for your opinion, stop censoring and pushing down opinions you dont agree with.
FWIW my entire life i’ve known people who do this shit IRL. My college campus was rife with people like this.
My daily life is also regularly full of people like this.
Exactly.
Being exposed to people that believe differently than you challenges your own beliefs, and theirs.
When women started opening about the bullshit they dealt with, a lot of people listened. Some didn’t, but a lot of people did. Some men said “hey, you know, now that you mention it, there’s some kind of fucked up shit about being a guy, too”.
Anyone that had ever engaged with any real feminist theory or any facet of gender studies said: you’re absolutely right. Everyone else completely drowned them out.
The internet around that time largely had the response of “shut up, the women are talking”. Not all of it, not everyone, but it was very common.
Some men kept patiently listening, others stopped listening and started talking, others stopped listening, got angry, and started yelling. Some were never listening at all.
Now we have hordes of young misogynistic racist shitheels who may have been receptive to other points of view once but are now so firmly entrenched in their shiftiness it may never change. And they’ve found nice cozy places to whip their impotent rage into a society-destroying frenzy. It festered in critical mass, quietly, until it built up a level where it could burst open like a cyst.
The lesson here has nothing to do with gender, but highlights the importance of LISTENING TO PEOPLE, and being exposed to their viewpoints while exposing them to yours. Even the most vocal, selfish, pigheaded, racist conservative has legitimate concerns driving some of their shittiness: fear of uncertainty over the future, economic uncertainty, poverty, lack of education, fear of death. None of these things validate the shittiness but they do explain and they’re the levers by which these views change.
And I totally disagree with that narrative.
Because in my experience I listened, but then was guilty of the crime of pre-rape. And then i stopped listening to feminists. Being male and doing anything male-coded was a crime to them. Popular feminism decided men were evil. Full stop.
then 10 years later… many of those very same feminists are now preaching 1950s subordination to their husband and God and many are of them anti-trans advocates. Every feminist I went to grad school with became everything she claimed to hate in her 20s. And icing on the cake, they would inherent tons of money from their parents and start lecturing others to grow up and work hard like they did…
wtf is ‘real’ feminist theory, btw? feminist theory has 100s of flavors.
Sure, they may have decided men are evil but so what. We arent, obviously. Men are actually much nicer to eachother than women are.
Let them talk, its a good warning signal who has air in their head and who has some brains.
I mean honestly filthy boomer to a screenshot is kind of hilarious.
Maybe they’re not telling us that the screenshot was taken with a Nokia and sent to email over their sms to email bridge?
Was a simple screenshot of a Discord announcement since they didnt have any links
Yeah, I’m gonna stop taking screenshots and use an analogue camera to capture my screen, then run to the photo printing shop, stop by the hobby store for some tracking paper, and track the photo. Scan that bad boy, and Bob’s your uncle!
Now what would I then be called by these keyboard warriors?
Probably a hipster.
Shit. You’re on to me…
Not that I’ve noticed, but the whole world is growing more toxic as far-right ideology becomes more and more accepted everywhere, so I wouldn’t be surprised.
