Its the dumbest fucking advice I’ve found since everything is centralised and run from head offices but they dont seem to understand thats not a thing
Because that’s how it worked for pretty much everything back in the day when your chances of getting a loan from the bank depended on the impression of trustworthiness you projected on the bank manager when you asked for it, rather than some obscure algorithm running in the bank’s systems that didn’t take in account any feedback from an actual human.
Amongst large companies automation removed humans from the loop, at least at an early stage, so now your machine processable input and/or information about you extracted from some other sources about what you’ve done so far, matching whatever the algorithm is configured to favor is all that matters. Sure, beyond that you’ll almost certainly end up with a person making a final decision (for hiring, not for bank loans), but you first have to pass that big initial automated hurdle that’s supposed to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Amongst other things this has killed “being judged as having potential” as a way to get a foot on the door, unless you have a high score on a metric supposedly correlated to it such as good grades at a supposedly elite university, since unlike “impression” such metrics can be mathematically evaluated and compared by algorithms.
Mind you, when looking for work in smaller companies that haven’t outsourced their hiring, impressions still work since your first point of contact is going to be a person whose opinion counts rather than an algorithm or a person too low on the pecking scale for their judgement to be taken in account.
You can get into a lotta places wearing a hard hat and reflective vest while carrying a ladder.
The louvre for example
Or a clip board with some technical papers on it, in case you don’t want to lug a ladder.
It depends upon the setting and what you want. Showing up to a McDonalds shift in a suite and tie trying to get the CEO job. Not so much.
Showing up to your first office job and meeting with your bosses in a nice polo or button down shirt and slacks looking professional, yes. It signals you are eager and want to succeed. Which will go a long way.
Of course you still have to put the work in. But your boss will be more likely to give you more training/work/promotions if they know you want to learn and work over someone who doesn’t give a shit.
No, they aren’t talking about for an interview. They are talking about going in someplace in a suit and asking for a job. My mother insisted I did this when I got out of college. It only took a few receptionists looking at me like I’m crazy to be reaffirmed that this was a dumb idea. Even places that did have openings told me to apply online.
They are talking about going in someplace in a suit and asking for a job.
I’m GenX. In my entire working career over the years I’ve seen random people come in off the street, CV in hand, looking for a job not advertised. Not one of these people were ever hired.
Actually, now that I think of it. One guy was. My friend worked for a porn shop in the 80s that had video peep booths in the back. It was his job to clean these booths. A homeless guy came in looking for a handout and my friend hired him to clean the booths for a few bucks a day. Dude would come in every day and spend 10 minutes wiping spooge off the floor.
So I guess if you aspire to be a cum cleaner, this technique might work.
Never mind. I read some of their replies. You are correct.
You need to know someone who works there I find. That way they actually read your CV.
Because life was literally that easy for them.
If they had a pulse, they usually got the job
You were guaranteed if you also dressed like the fancy people on television.
The world has changed for sure. They still have their positions but how they got them no longer works. The pay no lomger buys either.
*If you were white
This is truth. Immigrant and minority boomers/Gen X didn’t have it this easy. They were dodging racists like landmines and racist hiring practices were way less frowned upon back then.
Black people had jobs they just weren’t paid
Ok, I agree with you, I do, buuuuut
If someone shows up to an interview wearing pajamas, they are probably less likely to get a job. So you do have to dress up a little bit, depending on what the job is.
Not even just job stuff, its as impractical as pushing you to apply for something government related and that your dressing up and showing up in person will somehow override literal requirements you know you dont meet
Gen-X here. The reason they’re giving you that advice is because that used to actually work. If you wanted a job, for instance, you needed to comb through newspapers or physically go around and look for places that were hiring. It wasn’t uncommon for ads to to say “apply in person.” Without the Internet making applying for a job almost trivially easy compared to how it used to be, going through the extra effort of showing up dressed professionally was a way to show that you were serious and willing to put in real effort.
The Boomers and Gen-Xers telling you to do the same aren’t living in the same decade as the rest of us, mostly because the Internet wasn’t pervasive in the time they were looking for jobs. Back in the 90s the Internet was kinda a novelty that you had to go looking for. It wasn’t, IMO, until smart phones came along that being online REALLY took off, though arguably iMac computers really pushed the “tech is trendy” idea out there.
My mom knows I’m job searching so she brought me a newspaper lol “mom those jobs are 100 percent human trafficking. I’ll just go online”
Movie recommendation - Catch me if you can (2002)! Apparently Jobs used to work like that so much that in the late 1960’s a 16 year old just conned his way into becoming a pilot, a doctor and a lawyer with no previous qualifications.
You should probably know the best con that Abagnale pulled is making people believe he actually did all of those things. Journalists have discovered that the vast majority of his claims are completely fabricated.
If I remember correctly he was also kinda a creep. Stalking women and what not.
If you want a good con look up the story about England’s brief #1 restaurant the shed at dulwich
Dude made a fake restaurant that became #1 on trip advisor even though it never existed. He then did one fake day of operation where he served microwave tv diners. Then when he was found out he did a bunch of interviews…. Except he didn’t, he hired actors to pretend to be him.
That’s the kinda con man I like.
Yeah Abagnale pretended to be a doctor and conducted 12 “fitness examinations”, supposedly for Pan Am, on young female students. Definitely creepy.
And then there’s the individual women who accused him of all sorts of stuff.
hell, even to this day in…1/3rd of US states there are literally zero requirements to become a judge, it’s just a popularity contest.
That’s what they did the last time they searched for a job. It used to work.
It still kind of works in some industries. I got my last 3 jobs, and 2 of them “weren’t hiring”, by walking into the joint and asking to talk to the boss and saying I can start in 2 weeks I juat have to give my current biss notice. In demanding industries, showing up in person makes an impression, another app on a stack of applications gets you nowhere. Lots of people apply, few can talk the talk and walk the walk or actually do the work. I the auto industry you show up and impress the foreman or manager with your knowledge and your pretty much in. I know people that work in welding and a construction that this also works for. I also have siblings that are white collar that this absolutely does nothing for. Supposeit also depends on how much of a giant corp you work for, as I never work for monolithic corporations. If I can’t meet my boss I can’t work there.
This.
It’s old advice that used to work, and it worked very well.
My dad was a big believer of this when I was younger. Finally I humored him and had him drive me around town as I went into every buisness ask for a paper application. I printed and stapled 30 resumes for the trip, got dressed up, on the way into town he was so smug about how I was finally “really trying to get hired”. Four hours later, we’d been to nearly 50 businesses, I’d gotten two paper applications and only 16 of my resumes were accepted. Everyone else said to apply online or “we only hire through the temp agencies”. My dad for his part took it way harder than me. I think he actually realized that’s not how it works anymore because he never suggested it again and took me seriously when I said I’d been putting in applications online.
Kinda wholesome
Congrats on getting your dad to change his mind, even if begrudgingly.
There are so many people in his generation that simply do not understand what this job market is like, what navigating Indeed or LinkedIn is like, or how people apply for those jobs anymore. Very little human interaction happens applying for jobs these days.
using subterfuge
The part that gets me is they surely cant have had any recent success with it. Like, the first time they ever get to following their own advice in the modern day, they inevitably realize its bullshit. They voted and used their positions or authority in society to literally make it so that wasnt a thing that would ever be possible after them, shareholders dont care for opportunity or paying to train anyone or giving any rando a chance anymore
That would conflict with all the big cash payoffs
For sure. Tbf though, things have gone to hell even more in our generation. Is it their, and now our, faults for not stopping a business plot hatched in 1972 at the biz roundtable to subjugate and impoverish workers and remove protections?
To some degree, we need to do more for sure. But divided we will not, we need organization to combat the organized biz plot(s,) and blaming the boomers by the same logic would as of yet utterly condemn our own generations.
Have you heard the expression ‘pulling the ladder up after themselves’ in relation to Booomers, and the housing/labour market?
Blaming the generation for losing to the 1972 biz roundtable plot would utterly condemn our own as things are getting way way worse right now.
Their and our sins were not stopping a ruling class power grab.
We need to organize. They are organized.
1972 biz roundtable plot
I’d appreciate some illumination on this point, having never heard anything about any specific business reorganization in '72? America specifically, or was there some kind of global shift that I’m not recalling?
The major Business Leaders huddled up and made a long game plan that included infiltrating unions with organized crime, corrupting both political parties, capturing Regulatory Agencies, changing economic measures like the inflation rate to understate it which truly has been their biggest coup that is not even recognized by most of the population, also the unemployment rate only counting people collecting unemployment insurance Etc, capturing the Judiciary and stacking judges and prosecutors with their hand-picked groomed candidates from the Federalist Society type organizations. Fomenting the fear of the other and creating a police state to set Americans against each other, and so forth.
Fixing elections deserves a mention as well although I do not know if they explicitly worked towards that at that time but definitely gerrymandering type stuff.
Their biggest goals were to get rid of the New Deal programs like Social Security, but all of them, unemployment insurance, disability, workers compensation, to go back to the good old days when the old or injured or handicapped would be thrown out in the street to beg and or die.
I’ll be damned, I’ve been reading about the tendrils of this scheme for decades. What’s the skinny on its main organizers, are they explicitly identified as members of any particular named groups in a more specific than general way?
Edit: Nevermind, there’s a literal Wikipedia entry, they get zero points for their organization naming skills.
I don’t know if the Wikipedia even has the specific info on that part of it, it is still an ongoing organization. And there have been other sort of subsequent meetings where they have further refined their machinations but that was the Genesis of it as I understand it.
there is one consolation atleast…consolidation makes this problem easier to fix, in theory
*Boooomers
the extra o is for oh your god just retire you are the last generation with pensions
Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomers
They probably did have recent success with a variation on the theme. While they’re likely old enough and established enough now that they’re not having to walk around to retail businesses off the street and attempt to get a job like they did when they started out, this approach likely helped in more recent times in their career in the context of promotions or switching to a new job in their same field or at a similar level in a new field. They might have succeeded in getting that new job or promotion in large part due to their social connections and direct interface with the right people just like they’re advising you to do, except in their case it’s now at the higher level, which is probably one of the few places left where showing up at the right time, having the right manner and air about you and dressing nicely actually still makes the difference. The tactics wouldn’t work on their own, they still needed their credentials and connections and experience to get that far in the first place, but it probably helped cinch the position. Now they’re trying to give practical advice to someone just starting out and for them those tactics genuinely are still helping even if they’re not the sole factor in their success and when they cast their minds back to when they started out it helped a lot then too. With this experience in mind, in their shoes, it worked way back when, and it still works now at the higher level and the youngster you’re earnestly trying to help doesn’t have much else going for them since they’re starting out so of course they should at least do this and if everyone else is applying online then this alone will make them a memorable candidate for putting in the extra effort and place them ahead of 90% of the pack.
In reality, it doesn’t really work that way, the processes are centralised, the people physically in the office or location don’t really handle this themselves so they don’t care what you were like to talk to or how you dressed because it’s not their decision and the way the jobs market is, the employers have the leverage and there’s way more people looking for the jobs than there are jobs so it’s not going to be practical to have them all turning up in a suit because they want to be remembered and they prefer to streamline the process rather than deal with people directly.
I totally see why it would seem like sensible advice to someone who started working when these simple steps were a marker of basic competency and motivation and for whom it now continues to matter to this day. They’re just insulated from the way the situation has shifted.
I’m a millennial, the last time this advice worked for me was in 2019. I applied to the job online and went and sat in their office for an hour and a half waiting to talk to the manager for the position I wanted.
Eventually we chatted for like 5 minutes, I told him my name, that I applied on line, and that I’m ready to start as soon as they’re ready to hire me.
I got the job. The next one was a bit less dramatic but still involved some extra bugging after applying online.
But all of this in a county of 30k people for a labor job that I was overqualified for. I think this would still give you a leg up in the right environment or job search. But I haven’t looked for a job in 4 years and my wife is a programmer and you can’t do this stuff for those jobs. We’re at least 50 applications deep at this point with no contact from companies.
also he might not realizing before AI, they were using Software to screen out peoples resume, or keep peoples resume just for the sake of weeding out people. and many listings purposely have no plans of hiring at all.
temp agencies
what i’ve been wondering recently is whether unions aren’t just big temp agencies. instead of hiring people directly, the company forms a contract with the union and people work for the company as long as the union finds the working conditions (including pay) acceptable. if the working conditions drop, the union withdraws all workers at once, instead of the workers having to choose whether they continue to work at the company or strike individually.
I’d say they’re the good and evil versions of each other. They do the exact same thing, but the union has the worker’s interest in mind and the temp agencies have the company’s interest in mind.
That place you were going to will owe to give you the thing you want as a reward for your effort. This is exactly how the world works.
They believe that because that’s how it used to work (and still does in some industries). That’s their lived experience.
it definitely didn’t work that way for Black boomers
Maybe not in general, but it IS the reason that if you look at photos of the million man march, they’re all dressed up. Reason being, they were afraid any media coverage would paint them as degdnerates, thugs, and vandals. It’s much harder to paint that picture if they’re marching in unison wearing 3 piece suits, and their sunday best.
This in the middle of the summer when that was wildly uncomfortable.
I mean, that’s just smart, wearing Western formalwear to convince white Westerners that you’re human.
I think the point does stand that this advice needs to be considered in the racially accepted or disenfranchised context Boomers lived in.
That was also a time when a man wouldn’t dare leave his house without wearing a hat.
Times have changed. The only people who care about the shit anymore are boomers. People can go to work in the pajamas for all I care.
I like that a lot. I’m GenX but I always hated the suit & tie bullshit. These days I don’t even own a suit that fits. The last time I wore one was at a wedding in 2005 or so.
This. I work in un-unionized trades, which is arguably the least changed career since the time of the Boomers, and this advice does still actually apply
Lived experience and/or delusion. Many can’t seem to absorb that the labour market didn’t stop changing in 19-fucking-73, and it shows.
I couldn’t believe how dogshit so much of their advice was the last time I was searching for new work, and how irate they were that I wouldn’t take it - because it was useless and/or hazardous to my financial stability in the situation at hand. That coffee drinks-avocado toast shit seemed like satire at first, but some of them actually believe it, and had I been spineless/stupid enough to allow them to push me into the courses of action they were insisting on I think that it might have killed me.
“Naughty corporations” made me chuckle, but “I don’t know what the solution is” definitely rang true.
Most boomers actually don’t know where to begin, even though many of the solutions would be a 6-year-old’s first guess, and are actually proven to work, simply because they grew up being told that every single one of those obvious, proven solutions were “socialist” and that socialism was anti-American.
That indoctrination was so thorough that these solutions can be put right in front of them, gift-wrapped, with a neon arrow pointing at an easy button labeled “fix that shit,” and they’ll still shrug and say “we’re all out of ideas, maybe ask a billionaire what to do, surely they know how to fix the system.”
And the sad part is that they do and, in fact, already did.
Children, when given appropriate tools and knowledge can function well together, that is until the parents get involved. The kid cities in Mexico (more of a theme park parents weren’t allowed to interfere in) proved this. Kids can get shit right because they’re not clouded by the dirt and crap by everyone around them yet.
By the way those aforementioned kid cities, they always seemed to fall into chaos when parents were allowed to to put their direct involvement in them.
and had I been spineless/stupid enough to allow them to push me into the courses of action they were insisting on I think that it might have killed me.
yep, my experience exactly
Glad to hear that you made it out the other side as well. I’m worried about contemporaries stuck eating shit, or worse living back at home with Boomer parents eating shit.
yep that is definitely happening. development is a slow progress.
That’s what happened to them. If they were white.
only works for white people, it only works for POCs if they are rich or very affluent, so they have EXTRA fluff on thier resume. i assume its for job hunting, there was less competition for jobs like 30-50+years ago, now its oversaturated.
For POC with white-passing names maybe.
Otherwise they’d just throw out the application and turn them away at the door
Im fairly certain racism never existed in America, especially not in the Boomer era. They are a well known for being an open minded and accepting generation. (/s)
This works for small businesses. Sending them an email will just wind up in spam. But show up in person, and you might get to talk to an actual person. This distinguishes you from some random, semi-anonymous piece of paper or text header.
If you’re applying at some gigantic mega-corporation, then none of that matters. They won’t have time to see you anyway, and will only look at your application if they specifically asked you to give them one.
Yeah I was going to say the same. Currently work at a small business run by a boomer so if the random person walking in looking for a job happens to catch him there’s a 50/50 chance that person will get hired. Bonus if the person looking for work has a degree from a ivy league university, boomers love that shit. I don’t know why someone with that sort of degree would be applying for a low wage small business job but the job market is a bit crazy nowadays.
The practice can backfire of course - I’ve seen the same boomer boss hire other boomers that barely know how to use a computer and then proceed to fail at his/her job spectacularly. It’s interesting when you run into boomers looking for work and it turns out they spent most of their career relying on others to deal with the mundane tasks of dealing with email, spreadsheets, etc. So many of them spent their careers falling upwards into management roles until they were laid off/fired/whatever.
This distinguishes you from some random, semi-anonymous piece of paper or text header.
It also just gives them a lot more information about who you are as a person. A list of skills or lived experience can be misleading in all kinds of ways. And they only allow inferring personality traits indirectly, like someone with good grades is less likely to be a slacker, but ultimately you don’t know.
Probably, yeah.
It’s how I found internship a year ago. It was really just vague “something related to computers”, so I ended up in a small PC repair and sale shop. I just asked the owner, and that was that. Although, since that was for free…On the other hand, the large company where someone else went in the past… they just told me “write an email to this person”.
But also, that was kinda rare. He usually wasn’t there, especially soon before I left, as he apparently ended up receiving some threats and a few mad people showed up after he helped organize some protests.
The only time showing up in person works in the UK is if you’re a teenager looking for part time or apprenticeship work in independent shops/hospitality/mechanics etc.
I’ve never encountered anyone of any age that thinks that. Presentation of yourself is important, but nobody has ever even implied that just looking nice is enough to get everything. It’s simply part of the whole equation.
Generationally, the only thing here I’ve seen disconnected between Boomers/Xers and yoinger generations like my own and Gen Z are that they have a different sense of what looks good or professional. Personally, I like that younger people also hate suits. Suits are stupid.
Every generation just gets more casual and I love it!
Pretty soon I won’t even need to put on pants to run to the store!
I would love to live like an actual cartoon dog and only wear tshirts to express myself.
You put on pants for the store?
There is also such a thing as trying too hard. I once saw a guy show up in a blue button shirt with white collar and tie, to apply for a cook job. He got the job, and was good. But that outfit was a fucking costume and all it communicated was “I am into putting on a false front.”
Suits aren’t stupid! There’s casual suits, for one, and really there’s suits for basically every occasion… There’s so many different fits, different materials, different cuts…
That’s just such a violent generalization, I simply can’t stand by and say nothing.
Maybe the idea you have of a “suit”, in your mind, sucks balls, but suits certainly don’t suck balls.
what even is a proper suit supposed to represent?
like, i’ve grown up hating them as much as i hated everything else that was pushed onto me and i didn’t understand.
i’ve never seen a single suit that looks good or made sense to me. what is the purpose in it?
At the end of the day, it’s fashion – you may just not like them. It’s OK not to like suits, I’m not trying to push anyone here to like suits, I’m just saying they’re not stupid.
I mean, why wear chinos? Why wear blazers? It’s not like they’re “superior” garments or something, they just… Look nice! That’s it!
Suits are about showing that you care about what you wear and how you present yourself, because it’s intentional – you’re wearing matching pants and blazer, maybe even a matching vest on top of that – and that says that you meant to wear that, and didn’t just happen to wear it because you liked those pants and you liked that shirt. A suit is an outfit that looks like it’s meant to be worn as a single item: a suit. Not pants and a blazer; A suit!
That’s what makes it “special”, but it’s really just clothes.
Maybe when you think of “suit” you think of something like this:
But this is also a suit:
Do they look the same to you? Is it the same vibe? Do you think they fit the same and are equally as comfortable?!
HELL NO!! I wouldn’t want to wear that first skinny ass suit a single day in my life, but I think the second more relaxed suit looks very comfortable and reasonable, and something I could wear around without a problem.
Even if you still think both suits look bad, I hope this at least sheds some light on how not all suits are the same. What they do have in common is a cohesion that says that you meant to wear An OutfitTM, as opposed to putting on some pants and a jacket. Well, and they’re a little more formal than a t-shirt and jeans, too.
Something that I think might’ve also been a problem for you when suits were pushed on you was that maybe you weren’t wearing very good materials or very well-made stuff. I don’t mean to say that I know your upbringing, but odds are you were forced to wear poorly-made polyester clothes that draped weird, didn’t breathe well, and felt weird on the skin – that’s not exactly a good way to get a kid (or anyone, frankly…) to enjoy wearing anything.
I, at least, for the longest time, hated wearing collared shirts! Why? Not sure, but I assume a reason for that was that I was forced to wear them to church growing up and I hated both church and being forced to wear anything! Also, I was wearing shitty shirts that felt horrible to wear, regardless of occasion. Maybe you went through something similar.
ok, these two images explain a lot, thanks :D
yeah, the second one looks waay more comfy than the first one to me. and also i get your intention of wearing a complete, matching suit, like, stuff matches together. that’s better than just wearing random individual unmatching items.
the way i do it is to select all my clothing that i have/own depending on color schemes. almost all my clothing is green/brown/red, (the brown being similar to the second picture) so it all automatically matches because it all has a certain vibe to it.
:D
so it all automatically matches because it all has a certain vibe to it.
Yeah that’s a similar concept! Suits are also about fabric and fit, but you’re basically halfway there already, quite frankly.
it is said that once every thousand years a buddha awakens spontaneously who understands the world intuitively, without being taught …
and that says that you meant to wear that, and didn’t just happen to wear it because you liked those pants and you liked that shirt.
I like that though because what you like says a lot about a person. I love self-expressive people, not people who just do whatever they need to fit in. I also hate formal occasions because again formal means there’s lots of rules on how to look and act. Again pressure to fit in. As a progressive I don’t align with that. I like people being very diverse. If I’m invited to a formal event (or even a trade show with a dress code) I just decline.
A suit is like the uniform of the business world. Very boring and non-expressive.
PS I also hate collared shirts and ties, I don’t wear them anymore. They bother my neck.
As a progressive I don’t align with that.
I don’t like this very much… I’m a progressive, and I like both suits and formal situations!
I definitely think there’s some issues with a lot of the western notions of formality, with it being very Euro-centric and sometimes oozing with pretentious classism, often racism and misogyny, but that’s not an issue with formality – it’s an issue of colonialism, patriarchy, and white supremacy. In my opinion, anyway. It’s a matter of being inclusive and progressive everywhere, regardless of formality and dress-code.
Also, humans are social creatures. If you’re a progressive, surely you care about other people. I certainly do! Navigating formal situations is, in a way, a test to see how well you can fit in, yes, because fitting in matters; It matters how much you can relate to others; It matters that you can engage with other people on their terms; It matters that you can show that you understand what others value and can accommodate it; It matters that you can sacrifice some of your expressive liberty, for a short while, so you can be part of a group or a moment.
I’m not saying formality is some requisite of social life or anything, but I am saying that that stark rejection of it sounds antisocial, let me tell you. Well, to be totally fair it sounds neuro-divergent, more than anything, but I don’t mean to diagnose you either. You wouldn’t attend a friend’s wedding because it’s formal? I guess you just aren’t friends with people that would want you to wear a suit to their wedding. Whatever, feel free to disregard the last couple of sentences.
I like people being very diverse.
Also, if your idea of diversity is “no dress-code”, frankly, that’s ridiculous. I admit that there’s, as I mentioned, quite a bit of classism and misogyny and racism in some groups, and those groups do end up being associated with more formal attire – I get that – but to blame that on suits or formality is ridiculous! Why are you talking like dress-code means people aren’t very diverse?!
I really do take offense to that position. The range of people that wear suits or go to formal occasions is extremely diverse, and to imply otherwise is beyond reductive.
A suit is like the uniform of the business world.
So? I don’t care. Why would anyone care? I thought you were about wearing what you love and expressing yourself, why does it matter that businessman wear it too? I think corduroy pants look nice, so I wear corduroy pants. I think funky ties look nice, so I wear funky ties. If I think a suit looks nice, I’m gonna wear the suit – CEO be damned!
Very boring and non-expressive.
And that’s just false. I mean, did you even see the pictures I showed? Do they look the same to you? Do they express the same things?!
If you think they do, I don’t think there’s anything worth saying to you on this subject.
Also, humans are social creatures. If you’re a progressive, surely you care about other people. I certainly do!
Other individuals yes, but not being part of a group. If I align with a group like a political party, it’s just a temporary thing while our goals align. I have no deep loyalty to any group or country.
I definitely think there’s some issues with a lot of the western notions of formality, with it being very Euro-centric and sometimes oozing with pretentious classism, often racism and misogyny, but that’s not an issue with formality
Here in Europe it’s definitely often associated with “old money”. Or people wanting to show they are powerful or rich, or that they want to hang out with people who are. I don’t believe being powerful or rich makes someone a better person or more important, so I don’t want to make special arrangement just because they have this group code.
However, maybe you are in the US? Progressivism here in Europe is a lot more left-wing than in Europe. Something like the Democratic party would be right-wing here, and the republican party extreme or at least radical right. I’d be more left than Bernie Sanders to give an idea. Many left-wing party politicians also don’t wear suits. There’s definitely an anti-formal slant there.
I’m not saying formality is some requisite of social life or anything, but I am saying that that stark rejection of it sounds antisocial, let me tell you. Well, to be totally fair it sounds neuro-divergent, more than anything, but I don’t mean to diagnose you either. You wouldn’t attend a friend’s wedding because it’s formal? I guess you just aren’t friends with people that would want you to wear a suit to their wedding. Whatever, feel free to disregard the last couple of sentences.
Oh yes I’m AuDHD so yeah I am definitely neurodivergent. And no I wouldn’t attend a formal wedding. I’ll be super uncomfortable and unhappy and people will see that and be bothered by it, so there is no point. Better not to be there. I wouldn’t enjoy it anyway. I’ve tried twice and it went down really badly.
Also, if your idea of diversity is “no dress-code”, frankly, that’s ridiculous. I admit that there’s, as I mentioned, quite a bit of classism and misogyny and racism in some groups, and those groups do end up being associated with more formal attire – I get that – but to blame that on suits or formality is ridiculous! Why are you talking like dress-code means people aren’t very diverse?!
No it’s not no dress code, I do go to dress code events. But more in the alt/goth/fetish sphere. But that leaves a LOT of room for expression. A black tie event for example does not, at least not for the guys. Women have a lot more wiggle room (and I’m kinda genderqueer but that kind of event is not very accepting of that either, lol)
I really do take offense to that position. The range of people that wear suits or go to formal occasions is extremely diverse, and to imply otherwise is beyond reductive.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you. It’s not the people per se but the events and what they represent. Events that I have seen that required dress codes and I have not shown up for:
- Expensive restaurants, clearly the suits are a point of “we’re better than the peasants here”
- A work event with lots of leaders - I believe in equality so I don’t think they are someone I want to impress with dressing up pretending to be in their ‘class’. With my actual skills, sure but such events aren’t the place for that.
- A cruise dinner with a captain, if I’m on a cruise I’m on a holiday and it’s me-time, I have no interest in that (and the whole thing turned out super boring anyway basically being stuck on an expensive boat with almost no time to visit interesting places :) )
- A trade show that required “business casual” attire. It was a security event and I’m an ethical hacker, everyone knows we don’t do suits. I’m not going to be super uncomfortable just to make the money men feel better.
- Job interviews, if they specify a dress code in the invitation then it’s insta-decline, I don’t want to work there anyway
And that’s just false. I mean, did you even see the pictures I showed? Do they look the same to you? Do they express the same things?!
Well I see they are a different colour but they are essentially the same to me. One of them isn’t wearing a tie which I like (I don’t do ties anyway, they are a hard limit for me)
So? I don’t care. Why would anyone care? I thought you were about wearing what you love and expressing yourself, why does it matter that businessman wear it too? I think corduroy pants look nice, so I wear corduroy pants. I think funky ties look nice, so I wear funky ties. If I think a suit looks nice, I’m gonna wear the suit – CEO be damned!
I do have to say I didn’t consider that you might actually like wearing suits. That’s something I didn’t think of, as I hate them so much. That changes things indeed. I was more arguing against events where people are required to wear them.
I look positively bad ass in a sport coat, and I’m every bit as comfortable as in any other clothing.
The only suits that aren’t stupid are fursuits. 😤
That entirely depends on which Venture was the one who made it. Rusty, Hank, Dean, Jonas Jr., or Jonas Sr?
Most of the “boomer” discussion is veiled ageism and ignorance. The younger generations are setting themselves up to be “boomers” themselves. Inevitably they will be old. They’re already willfully ignorant. They take joy in it even. Not on a good track there.
